tigerwoodKhorns Posted December 22, 2002 Share Posted December 22, 2002 HDBR, The Harman Kardan 730 that you reccomend has a processor loop. Is this loop located between the preamp and the amp or is it just a processor loop. ie. does it have gain when the volume knob is turned. The reason that I am asking is that I have an older Denon with a similar loop, but the signal in unaffected by the volume control. I need one that the volume control does affect so that I can "Y" in a crossover and hook up a subwoofer. (I already have the crossover and the powered sub). Thanks, Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted December 22, 2002 Share Posted December 22, 2002 Tigerwood, I can't give you an honest answer on this question, because although I have heard many of these, I have never heard them used through any other amp....or another preamp used through them...so I am not sure. But if it is any help, my general experience with these things is that the volume control for the receiver is NOT a portion of the preamp section, but is instead committed only to the amplifier section....which would mean that if you send a signal to that sub, then route the signal back to the amp of the receiver using the preamp-out/main amp-in connections, the sub's volume will have to be SEPARATELY adjusted from the volume of the receiver's amp. If I had a 730 to look at I could give you a definite answer. Maybe somebody else here can. Either way, those connections are a plain bridge from the preamp to the amp...standard for that time...no special feature there. It would be nice to have a copy of the owner's manual to know for sure! There is always another possibility though, if the sub amp has a left and right input, AND a gain in its circuit for BOTH its signal AND an outgoing pair of signals back to the main stereo amp, then you can pre-set the volume on the receiver, and use the sub's control to adjust the volume of BOTH at the same time. This is NOT the ideal method, though...it is MUCH better to use the receiver amplifier's OWN volume control in order NOT to be picking up any extra line signal distortions and such....and it is also harder on the receiver amplifier section, since it is similar to strapping two amps together doing it this way. Just a thought since some subs' amps are set up this way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whell Posted December 22, 2002 Share Posted December 22, 2002 You don't mention the sub you use, but many subs have both Line level" and "speaker level" inputs. So, if the processor loop doesn't work, yuo might be able to connect the speaker outputs of the HK to the speaker level inputs of the sub. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted December 23, 2002 Share Posted December 23, 2002 Chris, H/K is in process of loading printable PDF copies of their "heritage" equipment owner's manuals onto their site. They haven't gotten around to the 730 model, yet...but I printed up the 630 manual today...it doesn't cover the answer to your question...even though the 730 was more or less the replacement for the 630 in the line-up...and the 630 also had the pre-amp-out/main-amp-in bridged connections on its rear, too! Maybe once they put up the 730 manual, it may have the answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djk Posted December 23, 2002 Share Posted December 23, 2002 HDBR: I can't find a 730 manual on line, but I think you are right about the 730 having FM. It was my father's older '63 vintage HK SR8900 receiver that lacked AM. RE: the volume control on the 730. The signal path goes: input jacks>selector switch>volume control>tone controls/20dB line stage>pre-out>main-in>power amp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted December 23, 2002 Share Posted December 23, 2002 DJK, Thanks a bunch...that means he can run the H/K 730 pre-amp-out L&R to the sub-amp-in L&R, then from sub-amp-out L&R back to H/K 730 main-amp-in L&R.... and use HK volume control to control the whole thing!!...just using sub amp's control to get the sub itself dialed-in, initially!! Provided his sub amp has these connections to begin with!! No "Y"-patch, that way!! Use of "Y" patch from the H/K's preamp-out would have thrown out his ability to use of H/K's amplifier section, which would have been a shame, since it is so nice!! Much better than having to use the speaker B outputs on the H/K too!!...because of the impedance to the main speakers dropping if he used speaker B connections for the sub! Thanks again! I kinda figured the 730's tuner section had AM in addition to FM...not much reason for that built-in AM antenna back there if no AM in its receiver!! LOL! Besides, if I remember correctly, that entire series had AM/FM tuners! Thanks for the confirmation, buddy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerwoodKhorns Posted December 23, 2002 Author Share Posted December 23, 2002 Thanks for the info, I just bought a 630 on ebay for $42. I know that you prefer the 430 and 730, but $42!!! adding shipind and insurance was a whopping $68 total for everything. If I love it but have to have a 730, a buddy of mine will probably buy this one off of me. I assume that i can use the pre-outs in the same manner as you describe for the 730. Where can I download a manual for this thing? Thanks, Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerwoodKhorns Posted December 23, 2002 Author Share Posted December 23, 2002 Just downloaded the manual for the 630. Thanks again HDBR. By the way, I just bought a Scott l-48 built by Craig. I should be able to do a side by side with these 2 amps and give a report when the goods all get here. This should be interesting! Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCturboT Posted December 23, 2002 Share Posted December 23, 2002 Chris, That comparision should be very interesting.SS vs.tube on K-horns.Keep us informed. Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerwoodKhorns Posted December 23, 2002 Author Share Posted December 23, 2002 I will test them with the heresys and the k-horns. A friend of mine has R-7's that I should test them on too. ultimately, the Harman will wind up with a set of JBL L-60's that I have. I know that we all worship Klipsch here, but these JBL's have a really nice full rich sound. I checked the sub and it has the hook-ups that I will need so that I don't need to use a "Y" Looking at these old units, how do I hook up the speakers at the terminals. I am using Kimber 4pr which is pretty thick. Should I just use a crimp on terminal? Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted December 24, 2002 Share Posted December 24, 2002 There is nothing at all wrong with a 630 model. The 730 replaced it in the lineup the same year the 430 entered the picture...1976. The 630 has screw-down type speaker connections, but I believe the 730 shares the spring-loaded connections there just like the 430 has...which may be somewhat of a problem compared to the screw-down connections of the 630 when it comes to using thicker guage wire. The 730 and 630 both have the preamp-out/main-amp-in bridged connections on the rear panel...but the 730 has more inputs/outputs than the 630 has...making it a bit more versatile. One thing about the 630, though...its bass control and treble control are two pots, one for each channel, with two knobs for each control...so that they may be adjusted separately for each channel...not a big issue to me, since I leave everything set "flat" to begin with...but for some it may be a nice "bell and whistle"...LOL! It will be nice to read of a listening review of the 630 on here. I wouldn't exactly say putting it up against an updated tube model is really a fair comparison, but as good as the "X"30 series is as an S/S RECEIVER series, it should still prove interesting, anyway. A more fair comparison would be against a modern S/S model that is highly touted, IMHO! Anyway, your deal on the 630 was a great one, and you should be getting much more than your money's worth on the purchase...plus I believe you are in for a surprise, too...remember what I said about the capability of this series to really bring out the bass when you give it a listen on your Heresys and K-horns...it is gonna surprise you!...at first you are gonna think..."too much bass"...but just give your ears a chance to adjust to the sound, and enjoy it and do some experimenting...before doing any kind of adjusting or anything! Best to give it a test WITHOUT a sub first...for music you may well find you don't WANT the sub with the H/K...especially when the H/K is pushing the k-horns!! hint, hint! The only way to explain this, is for you to hear it...both Justin and I have tried to explain it, to no avail!! You get the NEXT opportunity to attempt to explain it!! LOL! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerwoodKhorns Posted December 24, 2002 Author Share Posted December 24, 2002 HDBR, If you want an interesting comparison of the H/K SS against something new, I will be comparing it to my Denon AVR 5800. it will be interesting to see how a $40 receiver does against a $4,000 receiver (and no, I bought it used and didn't pay nearly that much for it). The new Denon blows away my 13 year old Denon DRA-95. the older one sounds nasal with the heresys and a bit bright with the k-horns. The New 5800 is much more balanced but the Harman will probably win. This should be interesting. I intend on using the Harman with a set of JBL L-60's that have a warm sound with good bass. it will be interesting to see how it sounds with those (at least to me!!) Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted December 24, 2002 Share Posted December 24, 2002 Call me clairvoyant, if you will...but I have a strange feeling that H/K will end up hooked up to a pair of Heresys before all is said and done with...remember you heard it here first! LOL! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerwoodKhorns Posted December 24, 2002 Author Share Posted December 24, 2002 If it sounds really good, I could always sell the Denon and buy a 6.1 or 7.1 surround pre-amp. Then just add a few more H/Ks. By the way, I really am serious. for the money I don't know where to get a better amp if it lives up to your description (as I am sure that it will). Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted December 24, 2002 Share Posted December 24, 2002 I don't know of a better S/S set-up for pair of Heresys...it just seems these H/K's are a perfect match to them...how they match up to k-horns or Cornwalls, etc, is another story...since I don't know...but it outta be interesting to read about it! As good as they are with Heresys, I would venture to guess they would be great with the other Heritage too! I do know one thing...the 430 is great with them...and even though a little something is lost(but still very little) as you move up the output power scale in those H/K's of that series, I don't think it is gonna make a whole lot of difference in how well they match to Heresys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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