Deang Posted October 12, 2003 Share Posted October 12, 2003 Believe me, I'm no expert. Leave that designation to those who actually know how to build one. I do know the difference between junk, and something good, and I think I got a fair set of ears. The soldering is fine, I checked all the joints pretty good, and I certainly didn't see anything suspect. If you look closely at the pictures, you can see the guy spent some time doing things that most others don't (like shrink tubing the leads for example). I thought the original ad said oils, but I'm doubting my memory now. He may have just said "Audionote caps". Without breaking into one, I can't tell if they are metallized polypropylene or film and foil. Whatever the coupling caps are, the thing sure does a good job. I suppose if I were to keep it I would change out the coupling caps, which would take it up a notch. Try to keep in mind that this is a $250 unit that easily competes with other preamps in the $900 to $1200 price range. Every once in a while you get more than you pay for. However, one shouldn't be expecting the parts quality and finish of a $2000+ unit. There is nothing on the rear except the insertion point for the power cord, the on/off toggle switch, and RCA inputs for the amp. There is no manual, which would be ridiculous considering the unit's simplicity. Shipping was $67, and it took 6 weeks for it to show up. There is no website. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Painful Reality Posted October 12, 2003 Share Posted October 12, 2003 I spend some time studying the nice pictures DEan provided. This little thing has some really interesting features. The stepped attenuator likes like it is well made. Providing the contact in the switch is good, this one should do the job for a good while. The tubes sockets are fixed on a separate plate from the chassis. This must contribute to minimize microphonics. This is heck of a deal at the price. I cannot think to anything else that comes NEW with all that (6SN7 wise at least). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prodj101 Posted October 12, 2003 Share Posted October 12, 2003 how much for the Cary? I tried to find them but it seems they are no longer in production. is there a comporable model now in production for under $1,000? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Robinson Posted October 12, 2003 Share Posted October 12, 2003 ---------------- On 10/12/2003 8:33:20 AM mobile homeless wrote: The unit was built with attention to detail in the construction and hand delivered and set-up by Jean-Francois (along with the amps). Chris owes me his next born for that connection! ---------------- Kelly, thanks for inserting the picture. Jeff did a GREAT job with this pre-amp, even though we were worried about gremlins and bad luck on occasion. It is so hard to get a good pre-amp RIGHT, but we ultimately got this work of art perfect. Poor Jeff spent WAY too many hours on this project for me, but his ethics and character dictated that it get done correctly. I was happy for him that the Horus project went very smoothly (short of the cobalt OPT's sitting in customs forever). Yes, Kelly, I again owe you BIGTIME for introducing me to Jeff and his creations. They are beautiful to look at and sound even better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Robinson Posted October 12, 2003 Share Posted October 12, 2003 For grins, here's a shot of the Pantheon's underside, showing off the 50 gallon drum oil caps. Man, those beasts are large but they sound awfully swell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Painful Reality Posted October 12, 2003 Share Posted October 12, 2003 Those oil caps were big indeed. At the time I build it, Parts Connexion (my source for parts) did only keep the 1000 V version in stock. They now have the 600V version which is more reasonably sized. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt1stcav Posted October 12, 2003 Share Posted October 12, 2003 Thank you Kelly, Dean, and painful. Sorry for all the repetitive and/or all too numerous questions...guess I can be a royal pain in the tush, but I just want to make sure from anyone who knows tube gear such as yourselves (and others) that this preamp is a worthy contender in the basic/entry-level 6SN7 catagory. I know it's not an integrated PP amplifier or a vintage EICO or Scott, but this pre would be a great beginning to a future all tube system later on (it's a much improved design over the AMC CVT 1030s I owned before). And it seems that it'll blend quite well with my SS McIntosh, so I may just take the plunge when finances permit. It can't be any worse than having no preamp at all like I do now, and then I'll be able to hook up my Nakamichi DR-1 cassette deck again (I've got close to 1000 cassettes that I haven't listened to in years). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted October 12, 2003 Author Share Posted October 12, 2003 Chris' Pantheon wiring with focus on the 1000v Jensen Copper Oil coupling caps http://forums.klipsch.com/idealbb/files/Picture%20440-Small.JPG Jim, I would consider Dean's preamp since it's actually already here and tested, not to mention no six week wait. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted October 12, 2003 Share Posted October 12, 2003 "...that this preamp is a worthy contender in the basic/entry-level 6SN7 catagory." Poor Jim, he just doesn't get it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt1stcav Posted October 12, 2003 Share Posted October 12, 2003 Kelly, I would love nothing more than to buy Dean's 6SN7 SRPP, but all I have right now is $400 max, whereas I could buy one on eBay using the BIN feature at $255 (roughly $325 shipped). I know Dean's pre is in mint shape with NOS tubes already installed, but with other potential buyers already waiting in the wings with his asking price in their hands, well...I don't have much choice, I reckon. Unless Dean can cut me a deal... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt1stcav Posted October 12, 2003 Share Posted October 12, 2003 "Poor Jim, he just doesn't get it." I never said I was the brightest bulb in the lamp! So my choice of words suck...ya know what I mean (I hope). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Robinson Posted October 12, 2003 Share Posted October 12, 2003 ---------------- On 10/12/2003 6:34:00 PM mobile homeless wrote: Chris' Pantheon wiring with focus on the 1000v Jensen Copper Oil coupling caps kh ---------------- I'm not sure what sonic difference would be found in smaller 600V caps, but these guys sure deliver the goods. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted October 12, 2003 Author Share Posted October 12, 2003 Yeah, basically this appears to be a $250 preamp that is built to higher standard perhaps sonically challenging preamps in the $1000 range. I think there are a few $450 preamps that sound excellent but this offers THE most for the dollar. IT might be entry level price but NOT entry level in other ways. Then again, I havent heard it hear, which was why I was interested in getting a sample. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjohnsonhp Posted October 12, 2003 Share Posted October 12, 2003 I would like a pre-amp with HT pass through and remote. I could add a phono stage from Jim Hagerman http://www.hagtech.com (good ink in Stereophile, has a board on audiocircle) or Wright Sound. Heck in a pench for cash even Graham Slee. Gary Dodd (Dodd Audio) is local to Dallas and Mallett will be with him next week at the TX DIY show. He has done some ST-70 rebuilds but recommended I get rid of the "vintage sound" of my Dynaco and Scott and buy some modern gear (including speakers). His products seem to be attractively priced. I think he has a 6-channel tube pre in the lab. I had Kosta from Korato join us on the forum last summer. TNT Audio raved about their KVP 10 and I had that confirmed with a phone chat with the TNT USA reviewer. This pre is $1k direct from Yogoslavia Korato KVP 10 http://www.korato.com/index_e.htm We also chatted with Dr. Lloyd on this board from Mapletree Audio Design and I think Craig has one of his Octal8 pre wich seems to be a good value at around $500. I have talked with some huge fans of the AVA gear -- especially mated with the AVA Fet Valve amp. I'd be interested in comments on the Fet Valve amp in a thread on amps. Same passionate response from owners of the Rogue Magnum 99 which used is pushing $2k http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cl.pl?preatube&1071170200&class&3&4& but how about the Magnum 66. Here is one w/remote instead of phono for $775 http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cl.pl?preatube&1070248347 I have read mixed reviews on the Magnum 66 which one owner preferring the Scott 130. And then there is the low price passive pre crowd loving on Channel Island VPC-1 and the FT Little Wonder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt1stcav Posted October 12, 2003 Share Posted October 12, 2003 Sorry for the poor choice of words. I understand that the low "entry level" price of $250 doesn't justify the high standard of quality and excellence this SRPP line stage preamp represents...my bad. I get it...finally! I'd like to get it...eventually! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted October 13, 2003 Author Share Posted October 13, 2003 Ken, as you will eventually find out, you will get people writing and loving just about everything made, especialyl within the forums. If you try to ascertain "which is best" by reading, you will be driving yourself insane looking for the best description. One thing I have learned, more than not in the tube community (and beyond), the next new purchase brings a heavy RAVE. Check the system five months later, and that piece could be gone. You need to find a few with ears you trust, although this isnt easy as the best of them still say things contradicted later on. One this is certain, different systems, setups, taste, and experience play HUUUGE roles here. One man's love might seem like sonic harshness to another. One froot might want liquid, the next "finger on strings, tinkle of triangle" details. One might be lookin for BIIG dynamics and that rock concert sound. RARELY does a person have the experience or witherall to see ALL of the above. And many of the reviewers these days are pretty piss-poor to me. Ultimately, as stated in here many times, it will take trial in your own system with a healthy realization that there are many ways to skin the proverbial cat. Learn how people listen and ascertain the results. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted October 13, 2003 Share Posted October 13, 2003 It's a damned if you do and damned if you don't situation for many. If one settles on something they really like, they lose the opportunity to hear different things, and pass up on developing an understanding of what certain things can and can't do. This leaves one open to the accusation (and you often do this to many) -- "You have no experience, you're opinion isn't valid." If one (like me) decides to move things around some, it then gives the appearance that the gear going out the door was unspectacular, or somehow dissapointing. However, this is rarely the case. With me (when not motivated by financial reasons), it's usually just as simple as curiousity getting the best of me. Good gear gets a good review, and just because I decide to move on -- doesn't nullify the good things I heard and wrote about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted October 13, 2003 Author Share Posted October 13, 2003 Dean, please dont quote me in a single sentence of your own making that is not what I said. Why does this annoy me? Because most of the time, it's wrong. I have NEVER said directly, "you have no experience, your opinion is not valid" and NEVER will. Any experience and opinion has validity in THAT connotation and within those parameters. And as OPINION they are valid. But ultimately, in attempting to judge some sort of objective "across the board" worth in black and white, opinions take on different weight and relevance in ascertaining this worth in an overall sense (not to mention that whole gray area of "objective worth" anyway). I WILL say that some opinions have more weight then others because of experience and one's sense of detail, refinement, and ability to see the whole picture. Exposure and experience in setup, with a wider range of parameters accounted for and covered, often DOES bring a more healthy perspective But where this REALLY takes front and center, is when the person is trying to REVIEW THE GEAR as its own entity with a SUMMARY of overall worth. It's ONE thing to say your preferences and outline them in a review, then given opinion. IT's quite another to say THIS IS THE WAY IT IS, after listening to the narrow confines in music, setup, and gear options (or as having never heard it at all - which SHOULD be stated). Sorry to be so harsh in that first paragraph but it pisses me off. It's the lack of care in chosing words that is painful to me. People call it "speaking plainly" or "telling it like it is." More often than not, I find it lacking details, important caveats, and walking roughshod over the variablity and setting (not to mention the connotations or meaning). kh ps - How often do you see this type view: "I listened to X of commercial ROCK AT HIGH volume and this amp didnt do well. So, this amp sucks and is not good or recommended. AND.... all amps LIKE THIS type arent recommended either, because THIS ONE sucked, and this one is of that type, so ALL of that type suck. I dont recommend this genre either." MAny do this here in my opinion. And what makes it worse, many dont even INCLUDE THAT FIRST parameter when it exists most of the time. Perhaps more exposure, in music, other samples, or setup would have brought a more EVEN HANDED rec that covered the MANY MANY other parameters missed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted October 13, 2003 Author Share Posted October 13, 2003 I think the best reviewer attempts to find the mid-ground and best points of those categories/classifications. Obviously, falling into any one camp severely limits the overall perspective in trying to ascertain how well the gear or system will perform. That is why in trying to be objective (a goal but almost NEVER achieved by very definition), it pays to use a wide variety of music of different flavors, formats, dynamics, and recording quality. You also have to attempt to be aware of your own prejudices and insert that into the equation. Add in the fact that your system in YOUR room is bringing even MORE variables. Top that off with the fact that you need to hear the gear combined with other setups/options. OF course, there are a lot of variables and IFS floating about. And it's up to the reader's job to ascertain these variables in the writing and explanation, all at once seeing the reviewer's bias, skill, and views in the process, not to mention, their ability to take all the factors into account. The overall view that Mark seems to be saying is something I agree on. One needs to get a picture of where the person's BIAS lies as well as HOW WELL they accounted for this bias in their assessment. It's a doomed situation for perfection, but then what isnt. Being AWARE of all these factors is sure a start, with reviewer and reader alike. Ultimately, it's still flawed as a bastard... kh ps- Interesting discussion - the above was edited a few times for those that might have read it early. My wife is saying, "get your dumb forum-jawed skull outside, it's Columbus DAy!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjohnsonhp Posted October 13, 2003 Share Posted October 13, 2003 Great comments....after reading forums & magazines, talking to owners in person, sales reps in person, designers on the phone and email, etc. I can appreciate the posts above. I guess I just need to get more time listening but even that is confusing with different rooms, electronic and sw combinations, etc. Despite all this I think I am progressing. I'm trying to zero in on my tastes. I'm also balancing my interest in my old music sw with a growing appreciation for great recordings and new styles. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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