Different Khorn Woofer?

[greg928gts]

Anyone ever play around with different woofer drivers in the Khorn?

How about you Builder? What would you think of the K43 instead of the K33? I have a pair of K43's just hanging around.

I just figure in 20+ years that someone may have improved on the driver performance a little. Of course there's all kinds of very nice woofers being manufactured right now, but I know it takes a very efficient and relatively light weight magnet and motor assembly to work properly in the Khorn. All the same, is there an improvement that could be made here?

Greg

[HDBRbuilder]

Greg,

PWK knew what he was doing when he matched up the drivers for them...the K-43 will actually give you LESS bottom end performance than the K-33 will...so best to stick with what it has in it, IMHO!

[greg928gts]

Well what was the K43 used for then?

Is there a life expectancy of a K33 driver in a Khorn? Should I take them out and inpspect them? What about the wiring and connections, can improvements be made there?

Thanks Builder.

Greg

[HDBRbuilder]

Life expectancy of a K-33 is your lifetime and then some.

The K-43 is the industrial woofer...adopted for use in the Industrial Klipsch speakers(in particular the LaScala version used for large concert hall and stage applications)...it handles more power and provides more decibels...but at a COST...and that cost is less bottom-end bass performance...something you DON'T WANT in a k-horn...and you also DON'T NEED ITS higher decibels and higher wattage handling, because, through the k-horn bass bin...it will throw-off the BALANCE of the bass performance as compared to the midrange and tweeter performance.

Look at it this way...if the K-43 had been determined to be a better woofer choice for the k-horn...PWK would have put it INTO the k-horn to begin with!

[Randy Bey]

DJK is looking into a 'high performance' version of the khorn woofer.

I think the objectives are to lower distortion more than to increase range.

Drop him a line and see if you can prod him into finishing his project!

[greg928gts]

Builder,

I really hesitate to bring this up, but I just have to.

Could a greater output of lower frequencies be achieved from the khorns with a woofer driver capable of slightly greater excursions and increased power handling, coupled with more clean power and a digital parametric equalizer? I believe the notes below 35hz are there, just rolled off.

Where as the trade off in your assessment of the K43 was a decrease in low frequencies, the trade off in my example above would be lower efficiency. But who cares, if you're able to equalize with accuracy and supply enough clean power at the same time.

I know, . . . purity, efficiency, pure design, PWK, and all that. But for me, it's about what I hear and feel. I truly believe my world, my tastes, and even my mood on occasion is quite different from what PWK had in mind 50 years ago when he developed the khorn. I know, . . .you can't change physics, . . . I got all that. BUT I WANT MORE! While I'm baited into trying various subwoofers to compensate for what I feel is a lack of low end in my system, I'm dissatisfied with how they integrate with the khorns.

Why not work to increase the output of the khorn to take the place of what I'm trying to get from a separate subwoofer? The only cost is more power, less efficiency. The end result could be a marked increase in low frequency output, integrated sound, and my own satisfaction to really feel the bass the way I want to.

The trick is finding something that has SLIGHTLY more output than the K33 or K43(I've not noticed a difference between the two, I have sets of both), and is only SLIGHTLY less efficient.

I realize I may need to double up on the woofer gasket to pull the driver away from the mounting board so that the surround doesn't slap against the board.

Greg

[BerndH]

Greg,

from what i read i know following:

PWK used the relative high Qts driver K-33 for better low end output. With raising Qts the bass tones are getting more boomy, so you're limited this way. A lower Qts, mostly to find on pro drivers, will give you less output at the low end. A low Qts as a result from a low Qes will overdamp the low frequencies.

The K-43 driver is rated with 200 W. Therefore i would be carefull with equalization in the low end, the power capability seems not enough.

Low sensitive drivers need for same reason a high power capability to be loud enough. You have to change your network.

Other drivers will often need another back chamber volume.

Regarding Klipschorn output lower than 35 Hz there is for my expierence nothing. I made a CD with test tones starting at 30 Hz. I don't hear 30 Hz in my big 28x20x10 ft. room. I hear 35 Hz.

You have to design a bass horn of room dimensions for low end output to 20 Hz.

Or you can go for a 4-way active setup with the possibility to power each channel as you like. Klipschorn bass section with driver as you like, a new mid-bass horn, for the top end you can use the original setup. You're limited to frequencies down to 35 Hz, too. Because this is the Klipschorn cut off frequency.

Good luck anyway you go for.

That's my opinion on it.

Bernd

[Randy Bey]

Greg, the short answer is no. The long answer is also no.

But, you can try what I did and see how it helps.

Open the woofer chamber. You will see a triangular area where the rear of the woofer lies.

Stuff the rear chamber with a 2' strip of 3" fibreglass. This should fold a bit but take up approximately 1/2 of the visible volume.

Close 'er up and let it rip.

Did not measure much different, but the bass appears to be lower, IMHO.

Also, sanity check: I once ran my khorns with the woofer and squawker leads swapped. Did this for a couple weeks, before I noticed.

Also, ran my left woofer out of phase with my right woofer for months, if not years. That one was harder to notice.

[HDBRbuilder]

Greg,

the limitations of he k-horn in bottom end performance are in its folded design...in order to increase the bottom end performance, it is NOT the woofer driver that needs to be changed, but the size of the horn lens itself.