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trickson69
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10 hours ago, garyrc said:

 

I am not a Klipsch employee, and never have been, but I've read a great deal of audio since 1959, am a fan, and blissfully live with 9 Klipsch speakers, a wonderful, music loving wife of 47 years, and a music tolerating cat. 

  • Paul Klipsch recommended trying any speaker pressed into in a corner (this was before the Forte, and the RP series, etc).  He stated that it would be likely to increase the bass by 6 dB [compared to out in the room, where crazy "audiophiles" of the era, as mentioned by @Islander, would likely put their speakers].  To the degree that the greatest power demands are often in the bass, corner placement with a 100 watt ["RMS"] per channel amplifier would be equivalent to using a 400 watt per channel amplifier with the speakers out in the room.  Initially, Klipsch speakers were designed to sound good in a "typical" living room, but, as you say, all rooms are different.  Other manufactures measured in an ordinary anechoic chamber and aimed for [sort of] flat frequency response and tolerable measured distortion levels in such a chamber.   But some speakers need  a corner, because the corner is part of the design, so Paul Klipsch had an anechoic chamber built with a revolving door "corner" in it so various corner [and non-corner] speakers could be measured when in a corner.  Archetype: The Klipschorn – Iconic American Loudspeaker - Resistor Magazine  | 
  • One of Klipsch's goals was to have both good measurements in his special anechoic chamber, and good sound in home listening rooms.  Some articles said he  found frequency response much less important than low distortion, especially modulation distortion, which some manufacturers ignore. 
     
  • Evidently, Paul felt realistic  dynamics  to be more important than holding frequency response within +/- 3dB.  Originally, he said that to get the "blood stirring" effect of a live symphony orchestra, you need occasional very brief ("instantaneous," probably 1/4 second or less) of 115 dB at your ears, because that's what he measured when recording the Arkansas Symphony.  Years later, THX found that instantaneous peaks of 100 dB (110 dB in the bass) is plenty in most home size rooms, with 105 dB (115 dB in the bass) needed in commercial cinemas and concert halls.
  • The silly truth about frequency response is that a certain other company's speaker, costing over $100,000, with advertised frequency response of +/- 1 dB, 20 to 20,000Hz, was measured by a magazine at +/- 5 dB (+4/-6dB)by a magazine, in a real room.  Not that +/-5 dB is a bad figure at all, or that I trust the magazine, but that the importance of frequency response is so over emphasized that it seduces marketers.  Speaker frequency response in the real world with the availability of room treatments, Audyssey, Dirac, Trinnov, and the lovely return of tone controls, should decline, but flat response sells, where it is there or not.  See also, Down with Flat! by J. Gordon Holt, Apr 29, 1985 in Stereophile.  Some recordings have improved since he wrote that, and, for me, the moderate treble roll-off (- 5 dB at 16K) of something like Audyssey Reference removes his distortion lurking at the top objection in lesser recordings.  For wonderful recordings, like the direct-to- disc Crystal Clear recording, Sonic Fireworks, I enjoy Audyssey FLAT, with the bass turned up, as well.  Try Fanfare for the Common Man.Richard Morris - Sonic Fireworks * Crystal Clear CCS-7010 Direct to Disc LP  | eBay
  • Corner Placement was heavily criticized from time to time, and year after year by Consumer Reports, who said that corner placement produced the loudest, but most uneven, bass.  I have never been able to duplicate these results with any speaker.  Then Don Davis, the studio designer,  wrote a great article for Audio magazine in which he said, "Paul Klipsch's advocacy of corner placement for the past 50 years is still correct. Corner placement has the following advantages: The entire audience-coverage angle is within 90°, polar control is excellent at specular frequencies, and the best low-frequency modal response in acoustically small rooms is obtained."
  • There may well be a small caveat.  Some stray midrange and treble sound may reach the front and side walls a bit too soon.  Putting some absorption on the walls where the off-axis midrange/treble might land before being reflected would probably be helpful.   image.jpeg.e371f0416829b96a0cdf31fa1aabcc41.jpeg 
  • I believe Klipsch measures their speakers with grille cloth on.  If you have pets [or kids, or unruly party guests] leave the grilles on.  Cats will sometimes eat speaker cones, especially if they have a certain (plastic like) smell.  I know that acoustically transparent fabric sounds like "clean coal," but I have my center channel behind a faux wall with AT fabric across whole wall, plus an AT projection screen that comes down in front of it.  Audyssey Flat fully compensates for this.  Audyssey Reference imposes its own curve if I select it.  Of course, I have the screen down when running Audyssey.  A slight treble control adjustment ought to make up for any filtering by the grille.

I want to thank you so MUCH! 

You clearly have opened my eyes and I learned something. 

Thank you.

You answered my questions absolutely! 

First off, I had my Klipsch RP-6000F speakers in the corner just like you and I was LITTERALLY told I was wrong. I finally know I was correct in the placement, I have them face on now and they sound okay but not like they did there was more bass before now I have to add more sub power. I also was told that my speakers are way too close to the wall 6"- 8" and told I need to move them at least one foot or more. when I do that I loose even more bass and the hyper treble kills my ears.

So, I think I am going to put my speakers back where I originally had them before being convinced, they were too far apart and in corners. 

And as for the grill part THANK YOU SO MUCH! 

That is very important for me to know. 

This is just why I have always loved Klipsch speakers, He took the time to really think about the room to get the true sound to the listener. 

 

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17 hours ago, Islander said:

The K402 is ideal for this purpose.  With the driver axes crossing in front of the listener, very little sound spills out toward the side walls, and the area of stereo effect in the room is enlarged.

I had not heard of crossing the K402’s like you mentioned so I tried it today and I was pleased with the results. Thanks for the suggestion. 

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So, I went back to the drawing board tossing out all the Audiophile BS in my head.

I read a bunch listened to a bunch of things and learned a bit along the way.

Not like I have any real knowledge or even any experience at all I just started to do it.

I have found the "Sweet spot" finally and though they look well not right from everything I grew up doing they really do sound EPIC NOW! 

I got the stereo imaging down now no matter where you sit or where you turn your head you hear full surround sound. 

Even when I have just stereo sound going it sounds like it is everywhere all around you, I have to say I was blow away when this happened to. 

Never have I heard this kind of imaging from a simple two-way tower speaker. I am BLOWEN AWAY FOLKS! 

Also got them in a corner and only 9" from the wall/ corner.

same with the subwoofers 8-9" from the wall they sound FANOMINAL! 

Sometimes audiophiles are just PLAIN WRONG! 

Cables, Speaker's placement, the list goes on and on. 

 

I do hope this helps out actual Klipsch speaker owners.

With Klipsch walls are not a curse but a blessing. the reason audiophiles fear walls and corners are because they did not get Klipsch speakers. LOL.

 

Kind of gives new meaning to the word crossover now does it not?

 

 

 

IMG-0024.jpg

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16 minutes ago, trickson69 said:

 

Sometimes audiophiles are just PLAIN WRONG! 

Cables, Speaker's placement, the list goes on and on. 

 

I do hope this helps out actual Klipsch speaker owners.

With Klipsch walls are not a curse but a blessing. the reason audiophiles fear walls and corners are because they did not get Klipsch speakers. LOL.

 

 

Shaking my head here, you made tradeoffs that you like better and others are wrong?

Many get all of it without compromise, like what you like, but don't look down your nose at others because they want more and are not willing to settle for less.

I know Klipsch owners that have their speakers away from walls and the system is stunningly good.

 

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18 minutes ago, 82 Cornwalls said:

 

Shaking my head here, you made tradeoffs that you like better and others are wrong?

Many get all of it without compromise, like what you like, but don't look down your nose at others because they want more and are not willing to settle for less.

I know Klipsch owners that have their speakers away from walls and the system is stunningly good.

 

I was being factious.

 

You know just kidding around playing.

I know it is hard because it is the internet you cannot hear it.

At any rate I have learned a lot and that is the key. Getting better sound from one's system is the whole point is it not?

I found it and that is thanks in part to the PEOPLE here.

I can say this for sure there is no one size fits all in any one's system set up.  

So many things come into play, and you have to keep changing things and willing to change as well. It was hard to break from keeping my speakers strait on in front of me and pointed right at me as well. 

But anyway, did not mean to offend was just poking some fun. 

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44 minutes ago, trickson69 said:

So many things come into play, and you have to keep changing things and willing to change as well. It was hard to break from keeping my speakers strait on in front of me and pointed right at me as well. 

Fwiw, I think the biggest thing folks can glean from your picture is the benefit of toeing in your speakers to the MLP and having the tweeters at near the same level. Good job!

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