Heresy 1 1/2

[swells]

"I believe you have what we have nicknamed Heresy 1.5. They are mid-80s Heresies with HII squawkers. Technically, they are '85 model HIs."

John Albright

I read John's "Heresy Crossover Mod - Less Bright" today and becae very intrigued with the idea, such a small mod could make large difference. Any way, I thought that I would follow John's instructions. After palying music wonderfully without complaint for the past fifteen years, I removed the back for the second time in as may weeks. I immediately saw somethings differently than I had last week. The the tweeter in #31 was indeed a K-77, I have no idea why I thought that I saw 75, that's what you get for opening and closeing both speakers before you get a piece of paper and write things down. as well, the blurred stamp on both squakers resemble

K-53K. So I'm left with Heresy I tweeters & woofers and Heresy II Squawkes. But thats not all, on to the crossover mod. As I tooked at the crossover it became evident that things were not the same as the diagram I saw on the type-E. I quickly looked at the stamp on the side "Type-E2". I as attaching a diagram that I quickly drew up. I am not an Electrical Eng , so I hope some of you guy can fill in the blanks. Maybe there is a copy of the type-E2 floating around in the forum, I ahve not looked yet. I did not see any taps of ways to modify the cross over. Anyway, I thought that someone might find it interesting.

This is what I found in my '85 Heresy

Crossover Type-E2

8556731 Tweeter - K 77

Mid Horn - K 53K

Woofer - K 22K

8556732 Tweeter - K 77

Mid Horn -K 53K

Woofer - K 22K

[Malcolm]

The only difference between Type E and Type E2 is the addition of a 33 uF capacitor in the woofer circuit. The taps referred to are the 6 lugs on the autotransformer. If you look closely they are numbered. You have to unsolder the wires to change taps. John's mod can be made to Type E2 just the same was as to Type E.

[newtubes]

I recently purchased a pair of heresys.

I have the same driver/xover setup and I'm really disapointed in the base.

what does the 33uf cap do in this circuit?

can it be removed to make type e xover?

any other sugestions?

[JohnA]

Without more component values, I can't say exactly what the 33uF do. They will roll off the woofer somewhere above the 700 hz crossover.

Swells,

The box at the top is the autoformer, used to reuce the output of the squawker and tweeter to match the woofer and the box at the bottom is an inductor for the woofer.

[newtubes]

John,

Thanks for the info, the type E-2 network is exactly the same as the E network except for the 33uf cap across the woofer. The inducer for the woofer is labeled 2304 I'm not sure of the value I assume it to be 2.5 mH

their is a 2uf cap before the T2A on the + input and a 2uf cap between the #2 tap and the tweeter - terminal.

the drivers are: K-77 tweeter

K-53-K mid

K-22-K woofer

What can I do to improve the bass response?

Can I take the 33uf cap out of circuit? will this bring the bass response down to 50 or 60 hz specs?

Can anyone confirm the value of the "2304" inducer?

If I remove the 33uf cap, should I change the inducer to one with a known value of 2.5mH?...perhaps an air core inductor?

I'm in the process of upgrading/rebuilding a ST-70 to drive these and would like to have the Heresys ready to go.

Thanks again for any expert advice and opinions.

D.

why did they change type E to Type E-2?

[HDBRbuilder]

Basically, as far as improving the bottom-end bass performance of any model Heresy goes...what you have is what you get...unless you decide to completely rebuild the cabinet, change woofers, etc...which STILL won't get you anything substantial without alot of money sunk into the deal. If lower bottom-end performance is what you absolutely HAVE to have, then replacing the Heresys with Cornwalls is the most cost-effective way to go, IMHO!

There is also always the possibility that you MAY get a small bit of increased bass bottom-end performance out of Heresy speakers by using a different power source...the amount of this increase will depend upon just how much better the new power source can provide this in comparison with your current power source. Just remember that bass bottom-end performance in Heresys is limited by the bass driver and the cabinet design...not its crossover network...and to get any substantial increase in bottom-end performance, you have to CHANGE the cabinet design AND the bass driver! By changes in the crossover network you CAN "choke back" the mid and high frequency performance and this may get you a "perceived" increase in bass bottom-end performance, but it will just be PERCEIVED...not real!

The other alternative is to play around with speaker placement in your listening environment.

[Istari]

Bass on the Hersey only goes down to 60 HZ.

Change to the Cornwall or get a good sub if you want to go lower...

[JohnA]

Newtubes,

I doubt we will know why the change was made, but the obvious things are the woover and squawker are different. Check your autoformer and see if it is labeled T2 and if the squawker is attached to tap #2 and the tweeter on tap #3. Disconnect the woofer leads and check its DC resistance. A K-22-E is 8 ohms. A K-22-EF is 7.something. I'll check the inductors I have and see what they're labeled. Changing to an air-core inductor will be a good thing.

[swells]

I have made a few changes over the last few weeks and the end result is deeper, fuller and more detailed bass. The same is true with the midrange and highs as well. This fourm is a treasure-trove of information, I wish that I had found the the kind of information years ago.

Up until a few weeks ago I had the same setup for the past 15 years. The first modification was the speaker cable which consists of 12 gauge OFC, then I started work on the heresy. I have replaced the zip wire connecting the drivers a number of times, first with cat5 then 12 and 16 gauge monster cable. For now, I am going to run all solid core copper. I have cat5 to the squawker and tweeter, and I am experimenting with a twisted pair of 14 gauge to the woofer. This setup seams to work very well for me event though I don't think that I have a very good soiled joint at the woofer with the double run 14 gauge (needed a third hand but at three in the morning, what can you do). My next step is to replace the 12 gauge OFC with some DIY Cat5 speaker cable and a new set of interconnects. Oh, I am also running a new pair of DIY coax interconnects. Man am I having fun now.

I almost forgot, I made a set of 2" ramped stands for the herisy and isolated them from the hardwood floor with four pieces of felt at the corners. I don't now what real effect this has had, but I thought that I should mention it while I was here. I will have to remove the stands and see I there is a difference.

That cat5 cable is amazing stuff, I wonder what else is lying around here that I could try out.

[HDBRbuilder]

Swells,

You might find it better to use "Grippers" than felt pads on the bottom of either the riser you have built for the bottom of your Heresys, or on he bottom of the Heresys themselves if you decide not to continue using the risers. Grippers can be found at your local Walmart back in the area where furniture cups and such are found for furniture feet. They come in various sizes, but I would recommend using 3/4" diameter ones for your application on the bottom of a riser, and using 1" diameter ones if attaching them directly to the bottom of the cabinet itself in lieu of using risers.. They are basically a "peel-n-stick" dense black neoprene material, that are designed for furniture feet on non-carpeted floors, such as yours. What they do with speakers will very much surprise you. They are also one of the most inexpensive tweaks around ...trust me...give these a try. If you decide to continue using the risers on the bottom of your Heresys, then put one Gripper in each corner of the riser where it meets the floor. If you decide NOT to continue using your risers, then place one gripper at each corner of the bottom of the speaker cabinet, with an additional one dead center of the bottom of the cabinet. The sonic difference in performance will likely surprise you! If your risers are NOT screwed or otherwise firmly secured to the bottom of your Heresys, and you want to contine to use the risers, then I recommend securing them tightly to the bottom of the speakers OR using some "sticky on both sides" weather stripping in a full perimeter between the riser and the bottom of the speaker cabinet...you NEED a good seal here, if not screwing the risers on...and using this method will provide additional stability between the cabinet and the riser body. All of these suggestions should result in better bass bottom-end performance from your Heresys in your situation.

[swells]

HDBRbuilder

Thanks for the info, I'll pick up a couple of different sizes tomorrow. I have seen some clear silicon textured ones, I assume that what you are gettin at with the grippers is to imobilize them, right. I have some of that rubberized cloth used as placemats on patio tables on the riser to keep the Heresy from sliding off. This works really well, after sitting for a day or two a gental bond forms between the two and the have to phycally sparated. I didn't like the idea of making holes in the bottom of the heresy, so this works much better.

I can't believe the improvement that I made with a little bit of wire. I use to run the nad with subsonic filter on, the EQ boost on and the loudness on at all volume levels (50 w/ch). Now I never have the loudness on and I can hear an increadable difference with the EQ boost. I am so impressed with these little speakers, I find it hard to express it in word. I wish that I could find a secound set, or better yet, and pair of corwalls.