swells Posted March 5, 2003 Share Posted March 5, 2003 I have been thinking about building my own sub, but can I actually make a sub that would compair to a manufactured sub? I mean that with all the engineering and testing done before a production model is produced, how can I throw somthing together that would be compairable. Aside from that, I can't decide what style, they all seem so interesting. One moment I have decided on a sono sub, then and IB sub then a dipolar IB sub... Now I have run into another very interesting design. I am going to post a couple of links and look forward to some feedback. I don't now if I am capable of the woodwork or not, but I am very tempted to find out. I would love to have a horn like one of these. http://www.decware.com/whorn.htm (the original - basic layout plans avalible online) http://www.decware.com/wicked1.htm (the redesigned - have to buy plans) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustin B Posted March 5, 2003 Share Posted March 5, 2003 I seem to remember someone who knows a lot more about horns than I saying those are closer to a bandpass design (especially the wicked1) than a horn. Those designs don't have a large enough mouth and the horn path is too short. If you want to build a basshorn check out the Lab12 designed by Tom Danley. http://www.prosoundweb.com/lsp/ As for DIY competing with commercial. The vast majority of commercial subs are seriously hampered by the design constraints placed on them. Size, weight and price. Doesn't matter how much R&D you do, still can't get around Hoffman's Iron law (at least not yet). With the help of experienced hobbiests (some I wouldn't call hobbiests though, I'd call them professionals) it is very easy to build a sub that will easily outclass any commercial sub at the same price point (often at price points 2-4x higher). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fabulousfrankie Posted March 5, 2003 Share Posted March 5, 2003 Here's some links that gave me the confidence to do some DIY subs. http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htforum/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=22&daysprune=30 http://members.tripod.com/~terryctheater/shivaphotoalbum/page12.html Also companies like Adire Audio will assist yuo if you buy from them:http://www.adireaudio.com/diy_audio/custom_design.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swells Posted March 6, 2003 Author Share Posted March 6, 2003 Dustin Are you the that built the twins? if so how do you think the 3'-3.5" sub compaired to the 5' 11" tempest? My main concerned about a DIY sub project is sinking $700-$800 into it and ending up with a boom box. How would you compair the sound quality and range of the tempest sonosub to a pw2200 or velodyne cht-12. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustin B Posted March 6, 2003 Share Posted March 6, 2003 I am. Unless you have to buy tools the the cost will be more like $300-$500 for the subs I built. The smaller ones are nice (easily on par with a PW2200, just play lower and sound a little better), but they can't compete with the larger one. The Shiva vs the Tempest just isn't a fair fight. Lower Fs, larger Vas, slightly more Xmax and a lot more surface area. The Tempest has roughly 66% more Vd than the Shiva. Output wise a Tempest will destroy a PW2200, especially down low. My Tempest is also no slouch with sound quality. The low tune gives up some punch, but I gain a very clean response and great low end rumble. Guess I should caveat with both, as long as you tune them low. The smaller ones are tuned to 20hz and the big one is tuned to just over 16hz. Tune the smaller one (and make it even a little smaller) up closer to 30hz and you'll have the equivalent of a PW2200 more or less. I don't think the CHT12 is as good as a PW2200. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swells Posted March 6, 2003 Author Share Posted March 6, 2003 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mlstrass Posted March 6, 2003 Share Posted March 6, 2003 ---------------- swells wrote: My main concerned about a DIY sub project is sinking $700-$800 into it and ending up with a boom box ---------------- I spent $900 to build my dual Tempest sonosub which includes a Hypex HS500 amp and all materials. I borrowed the router from a guy at work and gave him the $18 bit set as payment when I was done. Took about 20 hours total, working at a comfortable pace & trying to avoid mistakes. I could now build one in 1/2 that time. I would put my sub up against anything for 2-3 times that price. It WILL rattle windows 2 houses away, yet sounds very accurate during the musical score of a movie. Most of the 2 channel I listen to is metal, old school hip hop, rap, etc....and it is also awesome for that. The only real downside to some is the size, but it blends very well in the current room and will be in a dedicated HT in 2-3 years, although I'll probably do an IB with 4 Tempests for that room. If you pay attention to detail during the build-up and go with a proven design/tune you WON'T be dissappointed. You just can't beat the $$$ to performance ratio with DIY, especially when you factor in the free labor!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swells Posted March 6, 2003 Author Share Posted March 6, 2003 I just logged back on and noticed that my previous post got lost on route, sorry about that. I basicall covered the fact that after exchange and duty etc to Canadian dollars, I would be putting ~650.00 dollars for the driver and amp. If I could only find a supply of decent drivers and amp I would go for it. I love the ideaIof constructing my own sub, but I am concerned about my ability to build somthing that I could stand to look at. thats another reason I like the IB setup, the box is hidden on the other side of the wall. I am going to build something, maybe I'll start with an empty sono sub and check out the size and Aesthetics before sinking the other $650.00 into it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustin B Posted March 6, 2003 Share Posted March 6, 2003 If you are talking Canadian dollars, then yes that sounds about right. I was talking about total cost in US funds. I outline my actual costs on these two pages. http://dustin.bunnyhug.net/cost.php http://dustin.bunnyhug.net/twincost.php I could do it for less knowing what I know now, and with CSS in existance. http://www.creativesound.ca $240CDN including shipping for a Tempest. $270CDN for the AVA250 plus a marginal shipping charge (depends on what shipping option you go for). So even including taxes that shoudn't pass $575CDN. Another $175CDN max for building materials (a lot less if you can find a construction site with appropriate scrap they are willing to just let you take). Total is $750CDN for the completed sub. PW2200 would run you another $50 to $200 after taxes (depending on the deal you get). It also won't sound as good, wouldn't have anywhere near the extension and it would really take 2 of them to compete in output from the second octave and up with a well built Tempest. The Servo15 could compete extension wise (and sound quality wise if you don't mind what a servo does to the sound), but again it would take two of them to compete with output. So $750 DIY vs $1600-$3000 for something comprable from Paradigm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formica Posted March 7, 2003 Share Posted March 7, 2003 Ive been considering the same thing... either DIY dual shiva subs or a single tempest. Im looking into a JBL MPC-200 pro amp at the moment... if the deal is right, Ill definitely go DIY. Another option I've been considering is just one SVS PCi 20-39 sub, although the SVS is more expensive initially (esp with duty and brokerage fees), it does have a much better resale value when I eventually upgrade. Has anyone tested (measured) a DIY Vented Adire versus a SVS unit? Is there a web page where we can find response curves and max SPL for both under the same test conditions? I realise that it's very enclosure dependant... I'm just trying to get a general idea on how they compare... We seem to be quite a few canadians on this board... I had already come across the Canadian www.creativesound.ca web site (by the way the shiva has had its price dropped to 169.00$cnd) as well as www.solen.ca (many of the madisound brands) as Dustin is right about brokerage and duties really adding $$ to a project... Thanks... Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jstanton8 Posted March 7, 2003 Share Posted March 7, 2003 I had the very same apprehensions as you about making my own sub. So if one's not known far and wide for their carpentry skills but would like a custom sub nonetheless, what does one do? Have someone else build it for you. Check out Acoustic Visions or Rutledge Audio. They will sell you a custom sub built to your specifications anywhere from a complete DIY kit, to anassembled/unfinished version, to completely finished. With or without an amp. Kyle Richardson at Acoustic Visions or Brian Bunge at Rutledge are both very knowledgable and competent sub builders you might talk to if seriously considering going for a custom sub but don't like the "DIY" aspect. Kyle built me a 5 c.f. sub with a single Stryke AV-15 driver, two 18" 1600gm PRs, tuned to 21 Hz. For around 500 bucks. I decided to drive it with a 700 watt pro amp. It is getting veneered this week in ckear oak to match my K-horns. You can't beat the flexibility that building a sub from ground up gives you, and it's guaranteed to blow away anything commercial at 2-4 times the cost. It's about to be shipped to me, will let you know how it turns out,,, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fabulousfrankie Posted March 7, 2003 Share Posted March 7, 2003 ---------------- On 3/7/2003 10:01:08 AM jstanton8 wrote: Kyle Richardson at Acoustic Visions or Brian Bunge at Rutledge are both very knowledgable and competent sub builders you might talk to if seriously considering going for a custom sub but don't like the "DIY" aspect. Kyle built me a 5 c.f. sub with a single Stryke AV-15 driver, two 18" 1600gm PRs, tuned to 21 Hz. For around 500 bucks. I decided to drive it with a 700 watt pro amp. It is getting veneered this week in ckear oak to match my K-horns. You can't beat the flexibility that building a sub from ground up gives you, and it's guaranteed to blow away anything commercial at 2-4 times the cost. It's about to be shipped to me, will let you know how it turns out ---------------- $500 buck for that is an incredible deal! I always assumed they would be more expensive than that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pennektj Posted March 7, 2003 Share Posted March 7, 2003 All, I am interested into researching further the DIY sub. My dad and I are both pretty skilled woodworkers, and I think that we could handle building a sub. But where my knowledge is lacking... is the driver amp combo, and enclosure type. Any suggestions, trying to keep total cost around $500. Thanks, Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fabulousfrankie Posted March 14, 2003 Share Posted March 14, 2003 Adire Audio has plans on their site for the Shiva and Tempest. Any amp you can find will work. Many use pro audio amps because of the value, popular brands I've seen are QSC, Crown, and Samson. There's also plate amps available from places like Parts Express or Rythmik Audio. The Rythmik seems to be a good deal, 380w@4 ohms, continously adjustable phase, adjustable subsonic filter all for $135. A really hot woofer is the Stryke AV12 and AV15. They're gonna do another preorder very soon, if you want to get in on the preorder price. I'm sure Stryke or other's here can help you along the way in the design. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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