jstanton8

---------------- On 5/22/2003 10:50:10 AM Frode wrote: I checked the price on the RSW-12, and it is actually 2855$. The Tumult is very interesting, and could probably work very well in a sealed enclosure of ~3.5 cu.ft. Some EQ could be added(if needed). This is not the ultimate sub, but I think it could make me happy. Frode ---------------- 2855$? @*%%!! Just one Tumult would eat the RSW-12 for breakfast,lunch, AND dinner. Plus you could have dual (dueling)Tumult subs for that price. Of course it would not be an "ultimate" sub, but should be enough for any reasonably sane and intelligent person. And for the $1200-1500 you would wind up paying for it (and given appropriate amplification), I'm fairly sure it would compare quite fovorably to those "ultimate subs" in the $5,000 range (and maybe above, I do not know, I have never personally heard an "ultimate" sub...or a Tumult, for that matter...) My ultimate sub would be dual (stereo) 2-Tumult subs in appropriate alignments to handle 3200 watts each, but something like that would probably be capable of causing multiple organ failure resulting in the death of the listener(s). And is not really a sane option. No one really needs that much bass...

I would've got the Yamaha...

---------------- On 5/21/2003 4:37:24 PM Frode wrote: I've just checked the price on the Tumult at LS Wagner in Germany. It costs 880$, so I guess it would be cheaper to buy it from Adire. I don't think the shipping would be 380$ more from USA. ---------------- I think you'd be better off getting it from Adire too. Adire could probably tell you real quick what shipping a Tumult to Germany would be...probably a tenth of the difference... The Tumult is the "cutting edge" subwoofer driver at the moment, so new that people are still waiting for their Tumults from the original pre-order. You'll be WAY ahead of the curve with a sub made around this . If you do decide to go with a Tumult, let us know what type of enclosure/alignment you go with, and eventually some performance numbers, of course...

---------------- On 5/21/2003 12:40:01 PM The Hobbit wrote: The studio that PWK used was 27'X 16' with the Klipschorns on the long wall. This size of room and the placement of the horns on the long wall gave a diagnol of 32'. 32' is what is required for a 32 HZ bass note to fully propagate in the room. ---------------- I've heard on this Forum previously that 1/4 of a wavelength is all that's needed for bass waves to propagate. I can't remember the example given, but I thought the diagonal for sufficient bass propagation in a room was a bit sahorter than that...anybody??

K-Horn bass augmentation via subwoofers works just fine, given a decent subwoofer, and probably some sub equalization to deal with those pesky room modes/resonances which are typically a problem when dealing with unacceptable bass response (can you say Behringer DSP1124?).

I forgot about the Stryke HE-15 driver. That may be a very good driver for your sub also. There's another thread going on here as we speak re: a Tumult/HE15 based sub...

If it were me, I would go for dual Stryke AV-15 subs in 24" (interior) cubes (with double thick 3/4" MDF) and 400-700 watts amplification each, with either one or two PRs. These are relatively large enclosures. Mine weighs in at 140 some lbs... OR for a smaller enclosure, go for an Adire Tumult, but the Tumult will need roughly double the amplification. The Tumult is an ultra-low distortion driver (new XBL^2 technology) and would be highly "musical" I suspect, not that the AV-15 isn't. Both of these drivers are backordered at the present time (I had to wait several months for my AV-15), and as of yet there are no published performance numbers for an "in-use" Tumult. I think a pre-order may still be on for the AV-15 at Acoustic Visions. I paid $165 for my AV-15, the Tumult is around $500. You can check out the driver's specs at the Acoustic Visions or Stryke website, probably plans to fit each also. I had Stryke put mine together, so I personally haven't had to deal with the plan aspect.

---------------- On 5/21/2003 10:04:55 AM KAiN64 wrote: "...he asked me what speakers I had, I said Klipsch. Then he said that the subwoofer might be "too much" for my speakers! I was like "WHAT?!" ---------------- "Too MUCH" subwoofer for a Klipsch? Rather too much IDIOT for a salesman...I'm not even sure what the reasoning on that mis-statement would be. He's got it completely backwards, or maybe bass-ackwards! I need major subbage to keep up with K-Horns.

$2700 for an RSW-12?? That's totally INSANE! I see why you would want to go DIY. I would suggest an enlosure built to accomodate a Stryke AV-15, Adire Tumult, or maybe a Dayton Titanic driver (all 15" drivers). I would not even consider using a 12" driver, because the sub is going to have to keep up with La Scalas, right? You're going to have to be able move a lot of air for that. My AV-15 sub is tuned to 20 Hz, but it does great with music. You might want to have the tune on yours a bit higher if it's only for music & not HT, maybe 30-35 Hz... How confident are you in your woodworking/sub building skills? There are options available. Would you want to get an unassembled kit and put that together or do you intend to build the sub "from scratch"? There are companies over here you can buy kits from, from totally unassembled to "pre-finished" (you paint/veneer it), and for slightly more they will throw it together for you. Shipping to Norway might incur a bit of a charge, but with prices on subs like you evidently have there, in comparison it would probably be acceptable.

---------------- On 5/21/2003 8:48:37 AM TheEAR wrote: The quad or octo Tumult is a DIY,not a sub anyone can walk to a audio dealer and say "I TAKE IT". ---------------- I know that...but it'd still be WAY LESS than $10,000, probably around 1/2 the price...

---------------- On 5/20/2003 6:49:30 PM TheEAR wrote: "There is no suchthing as a sub that beats all and costs under 10K.Its a load of bull crap..." But Ear, what about the dreaded 4-Tumult Doomsday sub? Oh yeah, that's right, it's still only a "hypothetical" subwoofer at this point I suppose...

I can give you some suggestions. First, how much do you want to spend, including amplification? (HINT: a good sub will do both music AND HT well...)

I've checked over at the Home Theater Forum, and so far they're telling me nobody's got numbers yet for the Tumult, that "that sort of thing takes time." People are just barely starting to get their Tumults from Adire and some don't even have enclosures/amps yet. Looks like we're just gonna have to hold our horses for awhile, Ear...

I've got my K-horns snug in the corners of a 17 ft. wall. I also find that extra subwoofers are required to attain adequate levels of bass ...

Yet another reason to go DIY for subbage: "...it's like a B-15 on steroids..." Here it is: http://forums.acoustic-visions.com/index.php?act=ST&f=12&t=234

I bought all my Klipsch speakers from Uncle's in NYC (along with a Yamaha DSP-A1). Sent them a check for $12,000 or so to cover K-Horns, KLF-30s, KLF-C7, KSP-S6s and a KSW-15. They were authorized at the time, not sure now. I checked with the Better Business Bureau on Uncle's before I sent them any cash (they checked out OK). I would check with the BBB first before ANY internet purchase of expensive stereo equipmnet from ANYONE before sending $.

I suppose I would look at the range of the retail prices for them (internet search), then see what they are going for on e-bay, and go from there...

G-Money: What was the question again?

What are your main speakers you're matching the sub with? To me this would be a primary consideration when choosing a sub, also the size of the room it will be in. KSWs are not audiophile subs, more like "beginner's" subs. I would consider them GOOD beginner's subs. With some EQ they can be pretty decent. I have a KSW-15 and after some equalization to get rid of it's tendency towards "boominess" it turned out to be a much better sub than the "unequalized" version. For the price per dB (bang per buck) they are decent.

posted twice whoops

Hey Moon: How much are they? How many watts do they need?

Here's the Tumult: http://www.acoustic-visions.com/tumult.htm

Four Tumults is the Doomsday Sub of which the Ears spoke earlier. As I heard on the Home Theater Forum, "IT'LL THUMP YO' *** INTO SUBMISHUN" One AV-15 can make you punch-drunk. Two Tumults could in all likelihood disrupt your liver...four Tumults would kill you instantly, hence the term "Doomsday Sub".

If you are going to buy a "commercial sub" sub, I would take a look at the SVS line, the reasons for which have been thoroughly discussed over the past year on this forum (ad nauseum). HOWEVER, for the amount of money you are talking, I would seriously consider DIY subwoo***e (or have Rutledge Audio or Acoustic Visions build one for you like I did). You can get a much better quality subwoofer per dollar spent, or virtually get two of them for the price of ONE commercial sub of similar quality. Example: I spent a measly $600 for a Stryke AV-15 driver in a 5 cubic foot enclosure with two 18" Stryke passive radiators, tuned to 20 Hz. Double 3/4" MDF all the way around. Add another $140 or so for a 380 watt subwoofer plate amp and I had money left over for a Behringer UltraCurve Pro for sub EQ purposes (EQ is another MUST for a subwoofer to get rid of room modes, unless you have an "acoustically perfect room")! Had it finished with white oak veneer to match my clear oak K-Horns. If you want to spend more money than that, there is always the Adire Tumult driver, but that with it's requisite 1600 watts amplification will cost close to twice as much as the AV-15 configuration above. You can pick your driver, pick your enclosure, your amp, your finish, ported or PR'ed: FLEXIBILITY! And at roughly half the cost as going "commercial". That's my 2 cents...

---------------- On 5/8/2003 9:43:34 AM dtel wrote: ...reciver {yamaha rx v730} has a single plug in for sub and ava 250 has L&R or high level inputs what is the best setup ? what type of cable? do i just use a single cable then a Y ? ---------------- Easy as pie...use a y-splitter to split your Yamaha's single sub (LFE) output. Run those two lines to your L & R inputs on your ava250 amp. That's how I set up my AV-15 sub with my Rythmik 380 plate. Piece o' cake. Enjoy your sub (your next step will be to EQ it with a BFD1124 or equivalent....)!!