Vladi Posted April 22, 2003 Share Posted April 22, 2003 I am considering more and more to go to tube-land and need some advise. I need something that I will just plug and it will work, because I don't know anything about electronic circuitry. I am not willing to buy something used off eBay that will need tweaking, repairing, etc. Is this a dream, or is there tube amps that are brand new and will just work? I know this must be a dumb question, but please enlighten a dummy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted April 22, 2003 Share Posted April 22, 2003 What price range ?? What speakers ?? What music ?? What size room ?? so on and so on we need details ! Are you saying you want brand new or is vintage okay if already gone thru and ready to play ? Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edster00 Posted April 22, 2003 Share Posted April 22, 2003 Vladi, Would this be for a 2nd system, for 2 channel listening, or to replace something you already own that is listed in your signature? Like Craig asked, we need more information. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynnm Posted April 22, 2003 Share Posted April 22, 2003 Check out Antique Sound Lab at http://www.divertech.com Other possibilities are Jolida, Norh, Quicksilver. FWIW I run an ASL AQ1003DT which is a 30 watt/channel integrated and which is available for about $ 800.00 There are frequently ASL and Jolida amps available at http://www.audiogon.com (both new and used) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vladi Posted April 22, 2003 Author Share Posted April 22, 2003 Thanks for the quick replies. This would be for a 2-channel listening, in addition to all that I currently have. So the 2-channel listening system will be: Yamaha player, a tube amp, RF-3IIs. Price range: =< $500. I don't listen much louder than 85-90dB because I am in an apartment, so it does not need to be very powerful. Speakers: RF-3IIs for two channel Music: Rock, Classical, Blues (does this matter for an amp?) Room: approx 16'x20'x8' with opening to kitchen, corridor. Look at pictures: http://public.fotki.com/vddobrev/various/equipment/my_home_theater/ The Quintet surrounds have been replaced by RS-3s. Vintage or brand new does not matter, unless there is an advantage in either (remember I don't know anything about it). Most important is it must be ready to play, and i would prefer warranty on it. Also, what is the expected life of the tubes? All I know at this point is that I am not satisfied with the two channel music sound of the Sony receiver I have, although it is a great for movies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtice Posted April 22, 2003 Share Posted April 22, 2003 Vladi, Five may be just a tad thin. Jolida 102 fits the criteria, but you could do a lot better for just a little more. My suggestion would be to allow six if possible (you might get by with five) and consider vinrtage. There are two Scott 299Bs on ebay right now, one ending tonight. Take one, send it to Craig for a rebuild and he'll take care of you. You'll end up with between five and six in it. I bought an Eico and did what I'm recommending to you. Couldn't be more pleased with the value in my '59 model. There's a huge amount of knowledge on this forum and they will steer you straight. There does tend to be some controversity with regard to cables and cable elevatorsstill trying to sort this one out myself. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynnm Posted April 22, 2003 Share Posted April 22, 2003 Vladi I believe that NOSValves of this forum could supply you with a nicely refurbed Scott etc. for $500.00 +/- that would rival new units selling for much more money. ASL has the Wave 8's at 240 a pair. Combine them with a decent passive preamp and voila once again you meet your price point. Norh sells a 20 w/ch.integrated tube amp for about 400.00 Given your desire to simply plug and play my recommendation would be a refurbished unit from NOSValves. That also has the advantage of providing you with a halfway decent phono stage should you decide to experiment with vinyl - ( and you really should treat yourself ). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBM135 Posted April 22, 2003 Share Posted April 22, 2003 I also wanted plug and play with no hassle. I went with a Jolida 202B. You do have to bias the amp upon arrival and when you change output tubes. This simple procedure took all of about 10 minutes. And changing a light bulb is about as "tool time" as I get. It is a necessary part of tube ownership. Super easy. Then you are off and running no problem. Can be had used for about your price range. You can buy a Jolida brand new, get a warranty etc. too as another option. See www.jolida.com Tubes totally blew away the sound of my Harmon/Kardon SS amp. Others on this forum tell of how Vintage gear exceeds the perfomance of Jolida and other newer designs. So I had NOSValves rebuild a 299A for me and it is on it's way. I will compare the two and see for myself. MM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prodj101 Posted April 22, 2003 Share Posted April 22, 2003 depending on your range, for a new tube amp I would reccomend the Super Amp (www.superamp.com) they ahve gotten nothing but good reviews and have are something like 20 watts per channel in class A for like 1,100 bucks which isn't that bad to me. other things to consider are the Decware tube amps. they make some very good introductery products. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T2K Posted April 22, 2003 Share Posted April 22, 2003 I bought a Scott 222-C and had Craig blow magic smoke on it. Bought a mint walnut Scott cabinet. Invested ~$450 total. I bought a pair of Klipsch KG2.5 bookshelf speakers for temporary 2-channel use with the thought of larger speakers in the future. Hooked up the speakers along with a Klipsch SW12II sub. I wish everyone here could hear the setup. My good friend came over last weekend and after a few hours of listening his words echoed my earlier thoughts: "that's ALL you need". If you are looking for good quality sound only and not for a collection of equipment, you could do much worse than a restored Scott. They look swell too. Keith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mace Posted April 22, 2003 Share Posted April 22, 2003 Not to be a party pooper... but be aware if you buy vintage there are no gaurantees. If you can live with some cosmetic imperfections, some possible imperfections in sound and the amp needing some TLC then vintage may give you a good run for the money (around $500 after rebuild) There is the small chance you might get a vintage amp which hasn't been too well cared for. Make sure to ask lots of questions and get lots of pictures from the seller! My Scott 299A does sound great but it isn't perfect, which makes for a bit of getting used to. If you want no repairs, no hassle, no rebuild and plug and play, I'd suggest new. Edit: One more thing... be aware that the Scott amps put off quite a bit of heat and need to have a lot of headroom (like a foot) of clearance above them to dissapate properly. Mace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vladi Posted April 23, 2003 Author Share Posted April 23, 2003 ---------------- On 4/22/2003 10:19:10 PM mace wrote: Not to be a party pooper... but be aware if you buy vintage there are no gaurantees. If you can live with some cosmetic imperfections, some possible imperfections in sound and the amp needing some TLC then vintage may give you a good run for the money (around $500 after rebuild) There is the small chance you might get a vintage amp which hasn't been too well cared for. Make sure to ask lots of questions and get lots of pictures from the seller! My Scott 299A does sound great but it isn't perfect, which makes for a bit of getting used to. If you want no repairs, no hassle, no rebuild and plug and play, I'd suggest new. Edit: One more thing... be aware that the Scott amps put off quite a bit of heat and need to have a lot of headroom (like a foot) of clearance above them to dissapate properly. Mace ---------------- Can you give an example of possible imperfections in sound? What is TLC? What kind of questions do I ask if buyin a used amp? Re heat, i plan to put it on the top most shelv of my compnent rack, so it will be in open space. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mace Posted April 23, 2003 Share Posted April 23, 2003 Vladi, One possible imperfection could be some hum or hiss. I'm told, Scotts in good condition are "near dead silent". In my case, I can hear some slight hum at all times, whether volume is at zero or 10 (Edit: only when CD is not playing!). During soft classical passages the hum can be heard ever so slightly. Otherwise it isn't a problem. TLC = Tender Loving Care Questions... hmmm, that's a good one. I'm probably not the best at this since I didn't really ask any. But, I'd ask about the history, to the best of the owners knowledge, how much he used it, where it has been sitting (garage, attic, family room etc.). I think pictures can tell a lot of the story. Make sure you get to see the amp from front, back and on the inside where the tubes sit as well as the bottom of the unit. Close up of the tubes would be good, have him take the covers off of the pre-amp tubes so you can see what they are. Look for differences in the big cans to see if something has been replaced. Look for rust on the transformers. Most important if you don't know the technical details is to just look for misuse, abuse, stains, buildup of crud etc. Also, be aware not all 299's come with covers! After reading this board for a couple of years, I think I'm the first guy that's had any sort of issue with a Scott 299. My issues aren't big, but my amp just didn't match the hype. Odds are you'll be fine if you ask for some input on a particular auction on this board. NOSValves rebuilds the things and does a good job, plus he is very helpful. Just the other day someone here got a 299B for $179 off of eBay, with a wooden cover. Even with another $200 in parts in labor the guy who bought that amp will be in great shape!!!! Good Luck, Mace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T2K Posted April 23, 2003 Share Posted April 23, 2003 Sounds like mace's experience is an exception, rather than the rule. Familiarize yourself with the item you are buying and ask questions. Pretty much common sense stuff. Craig will be glad to help you too if you'll ask. The Scott amps, for the investment, are hard to beat. No hype. Keith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speed3 Posted April 24, 2003 Share Posted April 24, 2003 Keith, How do you have the SW12 hooked up with your speakers to the tube amp? Are you running the signal through the speaker level inputs on the sub and the to the KG's or are you running 2 sets of speaker wire from the Scott, one into the sub and the other to the KG's? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnalOg Posted April 24, 2003 Share Posted April 24, 2003 Mace, My Scott, in tape mode is dead quite even at full volume, in phono mode you can start hearing tube rush at about 12 o'clock. The issues you are experiencing with your amp can be resolved. Not that I have alot of experience with a wide variety of gear, but my ears tell me this is one big bang for the buck! Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted April 24, 2003 Share Posted April 24, 2003 Tom , Mace and others , The issue here is not whether the problems can be solved or not. Its whether they can be solved affordably ! The amp in question here was not stock to start with someone had rigged in a Head phone circuit and generally messed with the wiring it also has seen major use over the years. At sometime the amp had some kind of water damage/pour storage which is horrible for every component in the amp from Resistors to Volume , Tone controls Ect. The advise Mace has given is well warranted for the most part. Tom for instance look at what happened to your first amp ! I won't go into details but history can play a part in the final product. The thing everyone needs to understand is that to completely rebuild one of these amps with all new resistors, controls, wiring the works would cost thousands !! EICO HF-81 amps are a great example of the luck of the draw at least 50% of these amps have damaged main power transformers that vibrate because they were run out of spec for to long to be revived without some noise. New PS can now be bought for $65 (thanks to Tom Mobley for finding a source) the thing about this is these costs start to push the cost higher than the value of the amp. All 299's are not created equal your original amp just like this amp are 299 first addition I have never cared for those amps they have a pour layout (wiring is a mess) and less beefy Output Iron then all other Scott 7189 based amps and these flaws are the reason the 299A second addition were introduced by Scott !! The 299A second addition is a big improvement over the original ! Every member of this forum bought 299 first additions without consulting me first or they would of never bought them. Ed asked me what to sell his amp for and I advised him $350 even though it was full of original tubes which we all know is very cheap for a rebuilt 299 !! The amp sounds great but has a real mild BUZZ (not hum). Could I fix this Buzz YES !!! How long would it take .... put it this way I spent 2 days trying and got it where the amp is usualable. It was horrible when I got it back here. I did all this for Free and had to cut my losses I was getting behind on paying customers ! Don't get me wrong I'm not complaining just saying you have to cut your losses somewhere. I have offered Mace to send it back once again now that he knows of its sound potential if he has enough pateince to allow me to try this and try that in my SPARE time I will find the problem (without bugging me ). But pesky problems like this you have to try this and that and walk away when frustrated to get a new perspective sooner or later the problem will present itself. HEAT, All tube amp produce major heat ! the 299 is no different then any other tube amp. Scott amps for the most part are a safe buy and 95% of the time end up dead silent. This amp is one of the 5%. Ed most likely never even heard this buzz with Heresy speakers or me for that matter because when I rebuilt it Heresy's were what I had. But with Lascalas or Cornwalls it is noticeable ! Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edster00 Posted April 24, 2003 Share Posted April 24, 2003 I am sorry to hear that mace is still having a humm or buzz problem with the Scott. I assure you I didn't hear this on my Heresys. Also, most, if not all the tubes were replaced during the rebuild. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radiohead Posted April 24, 2003 Share Posted April 24, 2003 Vladi, When you say you listen to Rock and Blues and such and then ask whether amp selection has anything to do with that the answer is YES. This is something you will learn if you choose to start experimenting with different tube amps. The only recommendation I can give you if you want to enter the world of tubes is to get an EICO HF-81 or a Scott unit. I believe the Scott unit of choice is the 299B. These two should fit nicely in to your budget. Buying vintage equipment off of eBay does not have to be a scary experience. It does require a bit of good judgement, a little patience, and some common sense though. You just need to scope out eBay on a regular basis, like the rest of us here, and try and find a unit in good condition with a seller that is reputable. The really cool thing about this forum is that everyone is on the lookout for one another and people usually inform others when a unit of good quality comes available. If you check out my sig you will notice my equipment. The Eico was purchased off of eBay and the Rega Planet was purchased off of audiogon. I too was skeptic about purchasing a fifty year old unit that was obviously used and could have had lord knows how many owners; however, you just have to take a risk sometimes to get the reward you are looking for. I was extremely lucky acquiring the Eico that I did. So far it has performed flawlessly and I haven't felt the need to send it to Craig yet for a refurbishing. I'm sure that will be in its future, but for now it works like a charm. The output from this little baby is more than sufficient to power most speakers especially Klipsch. I have to warn you though...tube amp acquisition is a DISEASE. Once you get your first, and hear how good it sounds, you are going to eventually want more...and that's a good thing. I started with the Eico about a year and a half ago and just recently, within the last few weeks, purchased the McIntosh units. Take the risk...your ears will appreciate it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted April 24, 2003 Share Posted April 24, 2003 Radiohead, This paragraph is something you should think over !! EICO HF-81 amps are a great example of the luck of the draw at least 50% of these amps have damaged main power transformers that vibrate because they were run out of spec for to long to be revived without some noise. New PS can now be bought for $65 (thanks to Tom Mobley for finding a source) the thing about this is these costs start to push the cost higher than the value of the amp. Don't put off to long what should be done now !! You would be suprised how well these amps can work and not even be close to there intended operating Spec. Damage to a the main PS or Output iron can not be reversed so its buy a new one or try the revarnish service that Tom Mobley is trying with his old one to see if it helps. No original 40 year old amp should be run at all without at least being tested properly ! Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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