PYRO Posted April 23, 2003 Share Posted April 23, 2003 Had a recent scare with a lighting strike on my system. No damage that I can tell. But this now brings up the concern for protection against lighting strikes and power surges. Any suggestions will help. Checkout my signature for my current setup. Thanks, RP Looking to spend ~$500.00 (US) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artto Posted April 23, 2003 Share Posted April 23, 2003 Yeah, I know, I posted this recently. But, we all know the search function on here leaves something to be desired so I couldn't find my previous post. So here goes........ There are basically 3 different types of power "protection/conditioning", the power conditioner, a voltage regulator, AND a balanced power isolation transformer. It's very unlikely that you will ever need all three, mainly because voltage regulators and balanced power isolation transformers also usually incorporate some power protection features. Which units you will need depends on whether you only want good general protection, or you have specific problems to solve. Devices that offer power protection (or power conditioning) protect from potential damage caused by voltage spikes and--in some cases--extreme voltage from faulty wiring. Power protection devices do NOT stabilize line voltage. Low voltage or overvoltage conditions must be corrected by a voltage regulator, which uses voltage-sensing circuits and multi-tap transformers to keep voltage stable at 120V or 240V within a specified narrow range All sound equipment, analog or digital, whether for live performance or studio, should have basic protection against power spikes and surges, along with basic EMI/RFI isolation. This is essential, because spikes and surges can damage your equipment. EMI (electromagnetic interference) and RFI (radio frequency interference) will not damage your equipment, but can cause unpredictable and unacceptable fleeting noises and -- if strong enough -- ruin a recording or performance. Spikes are short pulses of energy with voltages as high as 6000 volts. Though they usually last only a few milliseconds, they nevertheless can cause damage to sensitive solid-state components. Spikes also can foul switch contacts and degrade wiring insulation over time. In some cases, with some audio equipment, spikes can cause audible pops or clicks. Worst-case spikes are caused by nearby lightning strikes. This type of protection is usually provided by a "power conditioner". RFI is radio frequency interference, while EMI is electromagnetic interference. Both refer to low-level signals picked up by audio circuits, either through the AC power lines or through unbalanced microphone, interconnect cables or musical instrument cables. Though neither EMI nor RFI is likely to cause damage to equipment, both can generate sufficiently strong signals to ruin a recording or interrupt a performance. Power conditioners and voltage regulators both usually incorporate EMI/RFI suppression circuits which keep such spurious signals out of audio circuits -- provided it comes in on the AC line. (RFI and EMI can also enter via audio cables , especially if their shielding is damaged. Power conditioners do not help with that problem.) Protection against sags and brownouts is provided by voltage regulator. I would be very careful with what kind of UPS (uninterruptable power supply as used on computers) you might use, especially if you decide to use a regulated power supply. Voltage regulators ARE NOT DESIGNED FOR FAST-RISETIME WAVEFORMS AND MAY SUSTAIN SERIOUS DAMAGE! In any case, I strongly advise against using square or stepped wave power supplies with audio equipment. If you use a UPS, get the higher quality kind that produces sine waves. The balanced isolation transformer (such as Furman's IT-1220) serves an entirely different function. While it does provide basic spike, surge, and RFI protection, and even advanced protection like Extreme Voltage Shutdown, it does not regulate voltage. However, its primary purpose is to reduce hum and buzz in low-noise audio and video systems. It does this by providing transformer balanced AC power. AC power that comes from the utility company and your wall socket is NOT balanced (regardless of how good you think your utility's power is). Balancing the AC power source significantly lowers the noise floor (typically 16 dB) and can make a dramatic difference -- particularly in digital recording studios. This type of power, when run around a studio, does not induce hum into nearby audio wiring, because the two conductors induce equal and opposite voltages that cancel each other out. Similarly, ground currents are all but eliminated by the same common-mode cancellation effect. Balanced power can eliminate the need to adopt complex and difficult-to-implement star-ground systems, heavy bus bars, and ground rods in audio and video systems. In sum, all audio systems should be protected at least, by power conditioning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TauRus Posted April 23, 2003 Share Posted April 23, 2003 I have not tested the widely popular Panamaxes or Monster surge units, but I can tell I am quite happy with my Adcom surge suppressor ACE-615 - it is based on the "If Lightning Strikes" technology, no MOVs inside, 8 outlets on the rear panel. If you search the web you might find a couple of reviews on these units. I bought mine for around $320 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PYRO Posted April 23, 2003 Author Share Posted April 23, 2003 Thanks for the info, Anybody had good luck with panamax or monster power? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chickey Posted April 23, 2003 Share Posted April 23, 2003 I have been using a Panamax Max-1500 for years and it has served me well. Artto is right on the money with the reasons why you should use one in your system. I've heard the purists argue that such units can degrade the sound by limiting the amount of current available to an amplifier, but I have never personally experienced this. I'd rather have my hard earned equipment hooked up to a Panamax (or some equivalent) as opposed to chancing it. My neighbors have experienced melted phones and fried security systems over the last several years, while my gear keeps on chugging along. My 2 cents, FWIW C Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artto Posted April 23, 2003 Share Posted April 23, 2003 You might want to check out Furman's offerings. http://www.furmansound.com Furman makes power conditioning/protection equipment for professionals who make their living with audio/video equipment. It costs them time & money when equipment is down. You'll probably find that Furman's products are more competitively priced too, unlike a lot of high-end audio boutique products. With the exception of balanced transformer power supplies which will reduce potential hum & noise, or a regulated power supply (IE: your equipment will probably not sound "right" at 99volts when its supposed to be getting 120V), general power conditioning is more about protecting your equipment from severe power abnormalities than improving sound quality. Personally, I don't see how it could possibly hurt sound quality. And if anything, I would think it might improve it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyclonecj Posted April 23, 2003 Share Posted April 23, 2003 I found the old topic, under Home Theater (currently on page 7), titled "Which line conditioner PANAMAX or MONSTER" with a last post of 3/29. In that thread, you will see that I also had a scare with a power surge, & the Adcom Ace-515 saved me. I will never run without it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoe11 Posted April 23, 2003 Share Posted April 23, 2003 Well I've had on tryout from my local audio shop the Monster HTS-5100. I had taken it home one time before but only for a single early Saturday evening to late Sunday morning. This time my salesguy said "take it for a few weeks and see what you think" Well I've had it integrated with my system for a about two weeks now and here's what I've found. For non-digital cable TV, I haven't noticed any improvement to speak of though I can't really say that means the Monster is ineffective. I say that due to the fact that I'm located a few hundred feet from the cable source. Analog cable TV reception at my house has never been very impressive. For digital cable TV, there does appear to be at least a bit of improvement in the quality of the picture. For DVD movies, again rather unfair to pass judgement on the Monster. My video gear leaves a good bit to be desired as I'm running a non-progressive DVD player and CRT from the early 90's via S-Video. I would say that "noise" in the signal appears to be very slight if at all. Can't say the picture has really improved though. For audio, well now this is the primary reason I wanted to try out the unit to begin with besides the surge protection of course. I've listened back and forth with the Monster in and out of the system and I'd like to say it's an improvement with it in the system. Not a major difference I'd say, but perhaps at least a more silent background from which the music comes from. Now the more I've read about these products, the more interest I have in trying out the HTPS-7000 which is Monster's Balanced PLC. I've read that this unit by virtue of it's 60/60 balanced power is said to reduce the noise floor quite a bit which might provide more of a performance benefit for audio/video. Of course the mondo combo from Monster would be to combine the HTPS-7000 with the AVS-2000 voltage regulator. That would give you Balanced PLC, Voltage regulation, close to 100lbs worth of components for the rack and lots of pretty lights. Of course at the price of these two units, I could almost completely replace my Rotel gear 3x over in the event of lightning. At this point I'm unsure whether I'll keep the 5100 or try the 7000 or just go back to a simple strip surge protector and spend the extra money where it matters to me most, my music collection. At the least I will have some type of protection in place as the summer storms start to come around. Just my random .02 ramblings on the topic. I am glad this topic came back up though. We need more commentary regarding experiences with this kind of gear and not just who has bought what. ~shoe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minn_male42 Posted April 23, 2003 Share Posted April 23, 2003 for the best protection against lightning strikes and other severe surges you should use a "series mode protector" these are made by the following companies... www.surgex.com www.brickwall.com www.zerosurge.com www.adcom.com (i believe the adcom part is manufactured by on of the first three companies) i saw a surge-x unit take over 100 surges of 6000 volts at 3000 amps at our company's open house last fall...the surge-x rep had a generator that created those surges.....the surge-x unit never blinked...additionally, there was an apple laptop plugged into the unit and it never knew that those huge surges even happened... in 6 years of operation, surge-x has NEVER had a unit fail because of a surge...(or any other reason)!!!! concerning furman units.....i have a furman pl-8 in my bedroom system...i picked it up at a pawn shop.....i took it apart to check out the surge protection..... there were 3 mov's (metal oxide varistors) and that was it!!!! these are 50 cent parts!!!! needless to say, the unit was replaced with a surge-x unit.... (i have a surge-x unit in my main home theatre system) if you are interested, i am a surge-x distributor and we also sell to the general public.....give me a call from 8:00 to 4:30 central time and i can give you pricing....i stock just about the whole surge-x line.... aei electronics minneapolis, minnesota 1-800-328-0270 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TauRus Posted April 23, 2003 Share Posted April 23, 2003 I would like to second Russ - yes, based on product description Adcom uses a very similar if not the same technology as Brickwall units. My purchase of Adcom was driven primarily by the fear of surges. Just a few months ago a lightning strike totaled all home electronics in our friends' house. That was a wake up call for me. While searching for the surge suppressor I did come across numerous reviews that mentioned "dramatic" improvements in audio and video when the system was powered through a surge suppressor/power line conditioner. Honestly I dismissed this as another hype to force us naive customers to shell out money for all those PS Audio and similar expensive units. So I focused my search on the surge protection performance of these units. When I finally installed Adcom ACE-615 in my rack and powered the system, to my big surprise I indeed heard a difference in audio - the sounstage seemed to be a bit wider, music seemed to be a bit more transparent. But it did not end there - video was improved as well - on a big screen you can easily see the artifacts and noise of the cable programming - now they were gone. I did not notice this great improvement with DVD though. If I were able to change one thing in Adcom unit, I would add an IR port and capability to power the unit up/down remotely. Otherwise this is a very sleek and elegant unit, no bright flashy indicators. It blends well with about any AV equipment. If I could kill the three little red diods on the front panel, I would love it even more. Note to Adcom Marketing Dept: contact me for my bank account details Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyclonecj Posted April 23, 2003 Share Posted April 23, 2003 ---------------- On 4/23/2003 11:01:47 PM TauRus wrote: If I were able to change one thing in Adcom unit, I would add an IR port and capability to power the unit up/down remotely. ---------------- My older 515 has a second cord that plugs into the receiver, & it uses this to power up the other outlets via a timer. I just went to the web site & looked at the new ace units. I see that they are now using the 12v trigger. If you dont mind me asking, what are the 615's going for? My 515 was $119 in 92' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TauRus Posted April 24, 2003 Share Posted April 24, 2003 Man, that speaks for the quality of Adcom - you still have the unit you bought in 1992. I am impressed. I got ACE-615 last summer for around $320 from ElegantAudioVideo, but if you look harder you should be able to find a better deal. As for the second cord, I believe it works the other way around - the 12V trigger is used to power up/down the AV components, but not the Adcom unit itself. Right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyclonecj Posted April 24, 2003 Share Posted April 24, 2003 I just went to take look at the adcom website. It shows that it needs a 12v signal, but the front power switch overides it. Adcom Ace-615. Scroll down to page 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TauRus Posted April 24, 2003 Share Posted April 24, 2003 You are absolutely right, Cyclone. For some reason I ignored this feature but now i see how I can power Adcom by powering Denon receiver. Thanks a lot for the tip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avman Posted April 28, 2003 Share Posted April 28, 2003 i use a panamax max dbs+5 and am hoping never to rely on their no deductable warranty. they stand behind their product, and i have sold over 500 of their surge protectors over the last 6 yrs. there have been about 3 or 4 (of 500) that allowed a lightning strike to cause damage, but they cut a check for full cost of replacement. my receiver(sony strda777ES)is one component i DON'T want to replace, because it is an exceptional example of ES performance capability.i even ran a panamax brand extension cord to my sony projector from the dbs+5 so it would be covered as well. avman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PYRO Posted May 8, 2003 Author Share Posted May 8, 2003 Thanks again to everyone who responded. I ordered the ADCOM ACE-615 on Monday, should be here by Thursday. I will post my comments after a break-in period. Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyclonecj Posted May 8, 2003 Share Posted May 8, 2003 ---------------- On 5/8/2003 12:38:38 AM PYRO wrote: Thanks again to everyone who responded. I ordered the ADCOM ACE-615 on Monday, should be here by Thursday. I will post my comments after a break-in period. Rob ---------------- Great: Let us know how it goes! Bryan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T2K Posted May 8, 2003 Share Posted May 8, 2003 The local weatherman reported tonight that my area experienced over 800 lightening strikes per hour earlier in the day. Good reason to invest in protection. Keith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyclonecj Posted May 8, 2003 Share Posted May 8, 2003 ---------------- On 5/8/2003 1:41:49 AM talktoKeith wrote: The local weatherman reported tonight that my area experienced over 800 lightening strikes per hour earlier in the day. Good reason to invest in protection. Keith ---------------- I don't have to worry about Lightning as much as my power company. They seem to have all kinds of problems out here! Where are you located? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.