kjohnsonhp Posted June 8, 2003 Share Posted June 8, 2003 Outlaw introduces a RETRO RECEIVER for under $600. Now that just begs to be compared to a restored Scott/EICO/Fisher, etc. integrated amp. It should have a retro look but still all SS. There is a USB connection to PC and bass management as new features to an old style 2-channel amp. 75w/ch http://ubb.outlawaudio.com/ubb/Forum6/HTML/000256.html Fall availability Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShapeShifter Posted June 9, 2003 Share Posted June 9, 2003 KJ, I received the Outlaws Newsletter which talked about the upcoming release of the RR 2150 two channel Retro Receiver. Sounds like it may be a worthwhile entry level 2 channel unit. Nice features as you described. However, I doubt it would be an apples to apples comparison with the likes of a well restored Scott, Eico or Fisher component. My opinion is that none of today's manufacturer's can make a comparable receiver/integrated that performs to the sound capabilities of those vintage units at that price point. Mass manufacturing techniques simply can't compete in that price range and provide the level of sound quality as the old Point to Point wiring and subtleties afforded by vintage components. I do suspect that their Retro Receiver will be a good entry level or budget receiver, given their past track record. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eq_shadimar Posted June 9, 2003 Share Posted June 9, 2003 I don't think they will sell too many of these to us here in the 2-Channel Forum. From the specs section: Power: 2x75 watts per channel at 8 ohms, 20 Hz - 20 KHz, 0.07% THD, both channels driven; 2x130 watts per channel at 4 ohms, 20 Hz - 20KHz, 0.07% THD, both channels driven Inputs: Tuner, Video, DVD/CD, Tape, Aux, USB, Front Panel Aux Take a close look at the input section. WTF a two channel only receiver without a Phono (TT) input??? Why would you bother? Maybe someone can explain that to me. Laters, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjohnsonhp Posted June 9, 2003 Author Share Posted June 9, 2003 I'm not sure why phono isn't listed because it says: "the RR 2150 is centered on a high-performance tuner section and a spectacular, low noise phono section." Alhtough they may not be able to make a sub $1k amp like they did in the past, I thought it was recently stated on this board that point-to-point wiring is not a sonic benefit? The unit is all SS so it certainly won't have that vintage tube sound that seems popular with our Klipsch, and it was probably designed with modern speakers in mind. I doubt they planned to compare it to a vintage tub amp but instead it's probably designed to sound better than the current 950/amp combos they sell and other sub $1k SS 2-channel amps like B&K. I think it's an interesting marketing move to use the "retro" term and look. I think the new mbl integrated amp with dramatic price drops through the new mbl direct program would be a good comparison, too. 1. vintage amp 2. value modern retro SS 2-channel amp 3. sophisticated high list price German boutique brand (soon to be available at "knock your socks off" prices direct). Not apples to apples but very interesting to compare the different sounds...probably interesting to try on a modern speaker, too. It would be educational to me to try the mbl w/modern speaker vs vintage w/my Cornwalls and then swap amps and see if either works on the other. I hear reviewers describe a vintage tubey sound vs a modern audiophile sound...is that Scott/Cornwall vs modern European setups (for example)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShapeShifter Posted June 9, 2003 Share Posted June 9, 2003 I'm a believer that a well wired Point to Point component offers sonic benefits by eliminating or significantly reducing cross coupling and crosstalk when assembled well. Shorter lengths in the signal path and connections that seek to avoid capacitance between two electrical conductors that often times operate at different voltages is a benefit to me. My concern with some reviews is that individuals often state that one component "kicks butt" of another, when in fact each were designed to dissimilar specifications, price points and target buyers. They may have similar features, but they were not designed to perform to the same performance levels given their initial build parameters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audible Nectar Posted June 10, 2003 Share Posted June 10, 2003 "My opinion is that none of today's manufacturer's can make a comparable receiver/integrated that performs to the sound capabilities of those vintage units at that price point. Mass manufacturing techniques simply can't compete in that price range and provide the level of sound quality as the old Point to Point wiring and subtleties afforded by vintage components. I do suspect that their Retro Receiver will be a good entry level or budget receiver, given their past track record." I guess I'm also wondering just what will be the attraction with this unit. It appears that this unit effectively trades off the surround setup for a straight two channel receiver. Unless this unit is a significant sonic improvement from the current Outlaw receiver offering, I'm not sure they will move many of these. The attraction for vintage components isn't so much with looks as it is sound. It better be good (especially for an internet only company) - or they will have difficulty convincing potential buyers that this is a better choice than similar AVR's at similar price points. Now if this unit were tube based, I would sing a different tune.....but in SS, I'm confused, and unsure if this is a good move for them. OTOH, the new subwoofer from Outlaw (which Dr. Hsu assists with) will be another story. This will be a hit, without question. 115DB at 20 hz for $600????? This I've gotta see! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjohnsonhp Posted June 10, 2003 Author Share Posted June 10, 2003 While this receiver may not be as good as a vintage product, I perceive the value proposition is based upon sonic superiority to their current 950/amp combos and 1050. The 1050 and 950 have been critized for their 2-channel performance so this unit is positioned as a better/strong music performer along with some features for music (phono, USB, etc.) I would think a better move would be to include HT pass through so that it integrates with their current 950/5-channel amp combos that are so popular for HT allowing an outlaw HT to play better music. With all the momentuum behind HT it will be interesting to see how this unit performs and if anyone buys it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eq_shadimar Posted June 10, 2003 Share Posted June 10, 2003 Harman Kardon still offers 2 models of 2 channel only receivers. The street price for those units are around $300 to $400 depending on the model. I wonder what the target price for the Outlaw unit will be. No offense to the company but I would buy a unit from HK before I would buy one from Outlaw. Again I wounder what is the driving factor behind this move. It seems to me that audiophiles would not even bother looking at this product and Joe Six Pack would just go out and buy a surround receiver for the same money. Dunno I guess there is a market or they would not be developing it. Laters, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted June 10, 2003 Share Posted June 10, 2003 I'm sure an Outlaw 2-channel product will have no problem besting most run of the mill SS vintage pieces. Let's wait and see what she weighs in at -- I bet it's more than 20lbs, where most modern day crap comes in at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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