Jalen01 Posted June 16, 2003 Share Posted June 16, 2003 Hi All, Trying to improve upon my music system as always. I was wondering If adding a nice used (Tubed) Preamp from AR or another company would fill the "Missing Link" In my set-up. I've also been looking at perhaps a nice (Tubed) Cd Player from AH! or Jolida. I been constantly adding new pieces to my 2ch rig over the last year or so with not much improvement at all (very little at best). I would like something that would net me a 25-50% improvement at least (soundstage, rid my set-up digital harshness etc..). I Keep buying supposed "Giant Killers" (Klipsch, Rotel, Parasound, Paradigm, Cambridge Audio, Monster M1000I IC's, and now my McIntosh 7100). Preamps would need to be tubed (w/ remote would be nice). Balanced outputs maybe??? My Mcintosh Has Balanced Inputs (Don't know jack about Balanced Ins and Outs???). Is going balanced worth it (Especially, when My Cd Player doesn't have it)???? I listen to all types of music. With Jazz, Acoustic Music, & Classic Rock getting most of the rotation lately (Four Play, Norman Brown, Quincy Jones, Micheal Franks, Miles Davis, & Norah Jones To Dave Matthews Band, Cold Play & John Mayer To Steely Dan, Grateful Dead, Paul McCartney, Return To Forever, Doobie Bros, Steve Miller Band & The Eagles). I'm looking to eventually spending around $1500.00 for this upgrade. What do you guys\gals suggest I try next(Tubed Pre Or Tubed CD PLayer)? Thanks Much, Jalen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnalOg Posted June 16, 2003 Share Posted June 16, 2003 I'd definitely start with a tubed pre. I'm not familiar with the rest of your system, but if that gets you half way there, and you want more, tubed amp, then CD player, that would be the order that I would take. Of course the ultimate in eliminating digital harshness, would be to throw vinyl into the mix! Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jalen01 Posted June 16, 2003 Author Share Posted June 16, 2003 Thanks for the input RF3: Any1 else have opinons on AR pre's (SP or LS Lines) or some other Brand that will mate well with My Mcintosh??? Of course a Mcintosh pre would probably be Nice fit. But, most of them are way over my budget. Even in the used markets. Jalen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnysal Posted June 16, 2003 Share Posted June 16, 2003 AR preamps, IMHO are mostly "cold" sounding, not bad at all BUT if you are looking for the traditional tube preamp sound AR will not fill the bill, they make very neutral preamps (both their SS and tube). the exceptions would be vintage AR like the SP-3, SP-9 and SP-10 which were very tubey sounding, but will require rebuilding now to perform their best. regards, tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tillmbil Posted June 16, 2003 Share Posted June 16, 2003 Good questions, like your musical tastes. They are very much like mine. I myself am looking for the same thing you are. I am leaning towards the AH! cd player as my first starting point. Mainly because I have a Dynaco ST70, Dynaco PAS3, KD500 TT, and Cornwalls all in some state of delivery/repair. As soon as everything arrives I will give some feedback, pictures. From what I am reading I have fallen short on the preamp. Looking to play CD's and vinyl. Does anyone have some input on what I have so far? The preamp was inexpensive and could be replaced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jalen01 Posted June 16, 2003 Author Share Posted June 16, 2003 Thanks for The Input Sunnysal: I really appreciate your honest opinion. But, you may have Busted My Bubble.......LoL See I think My Problem Is I get too caught up into these Reviews from audioreview, audiogon & Audioasylum etc.... Especially, now that We're in Iceland, there's no place to demo equipment now a days. I bought Most of my gear from reading these reviews: Klipsch RF series speakers (140+ reviews all in 4.7 ratings) = Turned out to be a good buy Rotel RB 976 ("very versatile" "Bridgeable" "oustanding sound qualities") = Turned out to be good buy Parasound p\ph-850 ("Giant killer" yadda yadda) = average at best Cambridge Audio d500se ("Giant Killer" "Very analog sounding" "Airy highs & deep bass" "huge soundstage) = Only modest improvement to my Technics Cd changer I had before. I bought this stuff based on actual in store demos: Mcintosh MC 7100 (all the mcintosh gear sounded good in store. Newest Mc amp I could afford. Has Potential) Paradigm Mini's (sounded really good ran from the Mc gear) Monster M series Cables & Ic's (these are what the had inbetween the amp, pre's, cd player, and speakers) But as they say, "You Live and You learn". Reading everything I could on some of AR pre's states that they are: "Very musical, Put's music first, Has Broad Soundstage, Airy Highs, Liquid Mids, Nice to Solid Bass, Transparency, Singers in the room with ya, Pick-out different Instruments, Cymbals sound like they should, and a few of them mate well with solid state amps". Reading these type of reviews make the AR Pre's and the Ah! & Jolida Cd Players Sound right down alley. Man, I should have just bought that Eico HF-81 that Craig at Nosvalves had a few months back.... Any other thoughts on these or simular products I could try would be nice.........Thanks Jalen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnalOg Posted June 16, 2003 Share Posted June 16, 2003 Reading everything I could on some of AR pre's states that they are: "Very musical, Put's music first, Has Broad Soundstage, Airy Highs, Liquid Mids, Nice to Solid Bass, Transparency, Singers in the room with ya, Pick-out different Instruments, Cymbals sound like they should, and a few of them mate well with solid state amps". I get all that with my Kit Foreplay!! I saw this on ebay. For the price looks interesting. It has tube rectification, which is a plus if your looking for tube sound and comes with a return policy. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3030846248&category=14974 Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toddc Posted June 16, 2003 Share Posted June 16, 2003 Here's a slightly different option you might consider. Get a SACD player, a tube pre, and a bunch of new super audio CD's. The philips 963sa is a really nice sacd player at under $500 which leaves you a grand for your pre and a pile of sacd's. I recently added this player because I heard it improved the sound of standard cd's. My goal was to remove some of the harshness. It was an improvement for me. But the shock was when I tried an sacd. At the time I didn't know anything about sacd's but decided to pick one up to try. I was blown away! Since then I've had a number of friends over and both the educated and non-educated have been amazed at the sound quality. It's really, really nice. I think I've sold a few players in the last couple weeks. I'm currently looking for a tube amp to replace my ss which will then have my system finished. I'm on the NOS Valves waiting list. The downside with sacd's is that the selection is still limited. As with all new formats not every recording released is at the same quality level. I've found the reviews on amazon helpful when they *specifically_review* the sacd version. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clipped and Shorn Posted June 16, 2003 Share Posted June 16, 2003 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3030846248&category=14974 That pre amp on eBay does look interesting for the price, too bad it doesn't have a phono stage. Where you thinking of being able to play vinyl? C&S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnalOg Posted June 16, 2003 Share Posted June 16, 2003 C&S, I don't think his interest is in vinyl. At that price for new & return policy it's still a go without phono! The tube compliment I'm not to sure of, can anyone chime in on them. Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jalen01 Posted June 16, 2003 Author Share Posted June 16, 2003 Hello again all, I have about 500+ Cd's In my collection now. So, going back to Records is not an option at this point. But, I have heard a outstanding demo of SACD with "Dark Side Of The Moon". I thought that it sounded wonderful. My Cambridge Audio Player Is Only about 7months New Now and in great working order. So, I was thinking that the tubed Pre would be the first option. A Cd\SACD player (Sony ES, Philips 963, or whatever Tubed Option) will have to come later down the road. Jalen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artto Posted June 16, 2003 Share Posted June 16, 2003 First of all, youre probably going to have to pay more than $1500 for a used Audio Research preamp. I have an AR SP-6B. Supposedly the older models like the SP6 series are more musical than ARs newer ones. I dont know. Ive never compared them. Ive been quite satisfied with mine. AR does seem to have some reliability issues. And what really pisses me off is that the cost of their products has risen far faster than the rate of inflation over the past 20 years. And for what? Re-inventing the wheel? At a substantially higher price no less! Personally, I think tubed CD players are a joke. The only reason anyone builds them is because theres a market for it. If theres money to be made..someone will make it. By the way, my AR SP-6, while sounding very musical, it also has its own signature or coloration, especially the phono preamp. Actually, thats all I use it for..vinyl. And its also the noisiest component in my system. I wouldnt mate the AR with Mc stuff. Way different sound. As far as netting yourself a 25-50% improvementugh..I dont think thats going to be possible, especially for $1500. You might want to replace the speakers first. If you want to net anything close to that percentage of improvement you will have to build a dedicated, sound resistant, properly proportioned listening room that is acoustically tuned for appropriate broadband diffusion and absorption and reverberation time relative to frequency. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jalen01 Posted June 16, 2003 Author Share Posted June 16, 2003 Mdeneen: Didn't You also own a Mcintosh solid state amp? If So: Have you ever tried it with any of your ARC pre's? What was the outcome? Artto: There are plenty of ARC Pre's Listed On Audiogon right now from the LS15 - SP2 (All Under $1500.00). They had a LS16 that recently sold for $1600.00 http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/srch_fs.pl or http://www.audiogon.com . But, I knew that eventually someone would mention new speakers. Man, If you could see my place now........I've got all kinds of speakers lying around this place. All bought within the last 14 months or so (Complete Klipsch Ref 3 Set-up Minus Sub, Complete JBL Northridge Set-up With Pair Of N26 Instead of 4 N24's, and Paradigm Minis). All Bought At MSRP. If it wasn't for My Need for HT Speakers I've Could've owned a Nice Pair Of Klipsch Legends Or Dynaudio 1.3se's or Some Nice B&W's Or Paradigms. But, More Speakers At This Point Is A Dead Issue. I'll keep what I got for Now and Improve My electronics. At Least My Kids Will Be set for their stereo and HT needs, when the time comes. The dedicated Listening Room is already in the works. We've got a 6 Bedroom Home waiting for Us in Beaver, PA. (Mother-In-Law is selling it to Us). We've only got two Kids. So, besides the Basements HT Room Another One Of those 6 Bedrooms will be Mine.....LOL. Setting it up for sound is another story Thanks for the comments all....I look forward to anymore suggestions J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjohnsonhp Posted June 16, 2003 Share Posted June 16, 2003 I was looking at the AR SP16 list is $2500 and the SP3 with the factory upgrade kit and wondering how they will compare to my soon to be restored vintage Scott 355. I guess some day I'll just have to borrow an AR or find deal where I can turn it so that I can have that experience. Reading is one thing but there is no replacement for the learning process of having a box in your system. As for the question of digital harshness I wonder if a DAC would be a notable improvement? Today's Stereophile is raving about one today under $1k that is the minimum for CD playback. If I wanted to change the sound the most I might try different speakers. Klipsch seem to be very different and perhaps something else would be perceived as less harsh. I've wanted to hear a used pair of Legacy Audio Focus or VMPS w/ribbon tweets. Anyone heard these? I spent some time listening to the new Martin Logal Clarity speakers this weekend. For rock and symphony I just didn't get that arm waving driving sound of Klipsch...sweet, not harsh but not as much bass and --not sure how to describe it-- but dynamic big sound. They were pretty bright similar to Klipsch. I liked them better with vocals and piano. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jalen01 Posted June 17, 2003 Author Share Posted June 17, 2003 Kjon: Now a DAC may be a good option as well. Again, I knows Jack About Dacs...Dacs Are Digital right? Do they Offer Digital to analog conversions? If not, then the only option for me and a Dac would be with my aging Pioneer Reciever.... Martin Logan speakers are something special. At least the one model(?) I heard a demo on. (Almas Hi-Fi) Out In Dearborn, MI had a pair of their (ML) Top Of Their Line 8' tall Joints, ran off of mostly Krell electronics. Man, these had the hairs standing on my neck and arms, My ears were turning like some kind radar. You could feel the electricity flowing from these guys. The Jazz they had playing (Probably Dana Krall don't remember) The Female vocalist was standing right there in front of me, about 8' away from the speakers, like I could reach out and grab a Boobie or something. SWEET!!! I guess that is called Imaging??? Or is that soundstage? Who here owns a dac? any comments??? Jalen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted June 17, 2003 Share Posted June 17, 2003 ---------------- On 6/17/2003 6:18:38 AM Jalen01 wrote: The Female vocalist was standing right there in front of me, about 8' away from the speakers, like I could reach out and grab a Boobie or something. Jalen ---------------- WOW! Just like a real concert! fini Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jalen01 Posted June 17, 2003 Author Share Posted June 17, 2003 Thanks Mdeneen: I don't know anymore....Dac.....Mac SS pre........Arc....or just say the hell with it for now, and get me a better Av pre (Outlaw 950) for my HT rig. anyway thanks to all whom responded.... Jalen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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