kenratboy Posted July 16, 2003 Share Posted July 16, 2003 OK, so I have been toying around with the idea of making some DIY speakers (planning, not building, as I need $$$ to build), and I am trying to think it going with a 15" woofer would be the way to go, over a 10" or 12" one. If I have the room, are there any drawbacks to using a big woofer? Cost aside, I would get lower bass (woofers in the same series) and would get a system that would seem to me, be more competent overall. It would be fun to see how close you could get to a pair of B&W 801's, even if it didn't look as nice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tpg Posted July 16, 2003 Share Posted July 16, 2003 Note, you don't always get lower bass extension from a larger woofer... some 12's can outdo 15's as far as bass extension (ex. the DPL-12 vs. Tempest). In general, 12's have a lower Vas, requiring a smaller box, so if you use one of them in a larger box for, say, a 15, tuned right for that driver, you might get really low bass from it. Or it could be peaky.... you never know without a good simulating program. Check out WinISD for that part, and the guys over at DIYAudio.com are pretty good with these kind of things as well (just don't let them know you have no money to spend... hehe). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justin_tx_16 Posted July 16, 2003 Share Posted July 16, 2003 I have a really cool design in my head, if size was not an issue. Sort of an avante garde look mixed with some funk. Not really. I just think it would be really cool to have a "four way" speaker. You have a squawker, a tweeter, a 12" driver for mid bass and then essentially a sonosub on the back. You would mold the wood to make it look like a single speaker. I think that would be so cool haha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tpg Posted July 16, 2003 Share Posted July 16, 2003 I have a similar design in my head as Justin does. I wanted the large exponential funnel-like horns for mid and tweeter, then a nice exponential midbass horn (stack of 4-8 6.5" or 8" drivers to raise sens.) and a horn-loaded bass bin. Again... space not being an issue. Technically, this all could fit in my room, along with a pretty little tube amp in the middle... These things would weigh a ton... my room might collapse. lol-- I already had some plaster fall off of the ceiling from the sound vibrations in here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted July 16, 2003 Share Posted July 16, 2003 Using a larger woofer will get you less distortion,the woofer has to move less back and forth then a 10 or 12" to give you the same SPL.The larger woofer will have to be cut lower to remain linear,a good fast 10" unit should hit the 3KHz range with little trouble a 15" woofer is great if your speakers are three way design.In a two way its only valid if a pro type a la TAD or JBL is used capable of upper freq. with good linearity. As to... "It would be fun to see how close you could get to a pair of B&W 801's, even if it didn't look as nice " LOL NOT A FAT CHANCE IN BLUE HELL,it will not be even close. Try to duplicate my Dynaudio Contour 3.3 in overall performance if you want a real challenge.Not even a prayers will help here. Home made speakers even using quality drivers do not match speakers designed by real pros who have serious tools to measure and verify performance using modern tools.I see many great looking DIY speakers,when its all said and done they more often then not DO NOT match the best pro designs. Its like Joe Blow trying to beat NASA or the Russian space program at home,yeah tough luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted July 17, 2003 Share Posted July 17, 2003 "Home made speakers even using quality drivers do not match speakers designed by real pros who have serious tools to measure and verify performance using modern tools. I see many great looking DIY speakers, and when its all said and done they more often then not DO NOT match the best pro designs. Its like Joe Blow trying to beat NASA or the Russian space program at home..." This is dead on. No doubt about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenratboy Posted July 17, 2003 Author Share Posted July 17, 2003 ---------------- On 7/17/2003 11:11:38 AM DeanG wrote: "Home made speakers even using quality drivers do not match speakers designed by real pros who have serious tools to measure and verify performance using modern tools. I see many great looking DIY speakers, and when its all said and done they more often then not DO NOT match the best pro designs. Its like Joe Blow trying to beat NASA or the Russian space program at home..." This is dead on. No doubt about it. ---------------- LIES!!! DAMN LIES!!! Justin - it might be a 'bit' tought to desgin and build a large exponential horn, or three. Need to find someone that works at a fiberglass shop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justin_tx_16 Posted July 17, 2003 Share Posted July 17, 2003 I must agree, you can out do many speakers on the market DIY if you have a proven design. Who builds it does not matter if you share the qualities. The ppl that BUILT klipsch speakers were often cabinet makers. you get a proven design and you can easily out do a prebuilt speaker, as far as cost/performance goes. Look at sonosubs, very basic design but a great bargain. now, i do agree that just going out and designing your own speaker from the ground up would likely not be a good idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted July 17, 2003 Share Posted July 17, 2003 hey now...i build speakers from the ground up!!! wrap my own voicecoils by hand, hunt down odd science surplus stores for magnets and go to the hardware store to find odd things to make diaphragms, suspensions, and baskets to mount it all together and and.... just for the record, i just built a speaker out of rubberbands, pvc, a funnel, a piece of copper wrapped in lots of wire and a pretty blue magnet that has a response of 40-16k +- 3db (only problem is the peak volume is around 30db.....i think i need more than 5watts for these things) if it wasn't so big and heavy, i'd build another one and turn em into headphones...they sound that good. and it's not because i made them that they sound good! i built these speakers for a mixing class im taking and we mixed a song using this one speaker as the monitor and then listened to our mix through the super expensive studio monitors we got and it was very clean. but wait, these things didn't cost that much and were homemade and looked like crap so they must be crap...yes that must be it. DIY all the way, it's cheaper and more fulfilling and lots of times sounds way better. screw all this expensive measuring equipment...if they got audio down to a science, then why hasn't the perfect speaker been built? because they don't have it down to a science. i mean come on, nothing has changed with the speaker over the last 50 years...they're just tweaking a system that already sucks. the numbers and specs they slap on all this garbage reflect very little on how it actually sounds. it's just not possible to measure a good mix or a good sound or anything like that. our ears are too sensitive and vary too much between people. anyways, i prob shouldn't get on my soapbox...but if u think about it, even the best of the top of the line most hardcore speaker is still just a DIY that gets a brand name and an out of control price slapped on it. There's audio meant to give someone an image and then there's audio that brings fulfilment and then there's audio that tries to achieve both. personally, i could care less about some stupid image (obviously others here on this board have issues with it...) using your rocket analogy...the laws of physics that NASA uses is the same laws of physics your model rocket fanatic uses. just because the NASA rockets are bigger doesn't mean a model rocket fanatic can't be more creative and innovate. and then keep in mind that the super nerds at NASA are unable to communicate on normal levels. i would claim that the model rocket fanatic gets way more enjoyment and fulfilment than the NASA freaks. and in case you're wondering...im just a 19 year old punk teenager from chicago (i might add though that i've been doing live mixing for 11 years, tape studio for 8 years, top of the line multi-million dollar studio for 2 years, and studying to build audio equipment for a living. building speakers for klipsch? hah, wat a dream!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenratboy Posted July 17, 2003 Author Share Posted July 17, 2003 ---------------- On 7/17/2003 1:31:36 PM justin_tx_16 wrote: I must agree, you can out do many speakers on the market DIY if you have a proven design. Who builds it does not matter if you share the qualities. The ppl that BUILT klipsch speakers were often cabinet makers. you get a proven design and you can easily out do a prebuilt speaker, as far as cost/performance goes. Look at sonosubs, very basic design but a great bargain. now, i do agree that just going out and designing your own speaker from the ground up would likely not be a good idea. ---------------- I guess there is a HUGE difference between a DIY kit/plans, or a priven design and building your own speaker, especially something complex. Even those little cheap 6.5" 2-ways from Parts Express (http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&PartNumber=300-640&DID=7) look to have very complex X-overs for a little 2-way, so I couldn't imagine what must go into designing a good 3-way crossover, let alone making it sound good Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted July 17, 2003 Share Posted July 17, 2003 crikey i almost forgot!!! in the words of Steve Walker, "Bigger is Better" (steve walker is one of them research and board designers from mackie...not exactly top of the line, but he's really smart) since you're only planning things, i would say get creative with it...why not try 3 8" speakers in a triangle formation? (ya ya ya, comb filtering i know), but it's just a random thought. or how bout try building a new kind of subwoofer? i think a hemishpere shaped diaphragm balloon thing would be really cool. or why not go hardcore and see if u can't come up with a series of electrically responsive chemical reactions that create explosions at different frequencies? or why not try building a speaker with multiple voice coils on a single diaphragm? you're not planning on building this right? so get creative in your ideas...and if ppl don't like your ideas, tell them to booger off and get back to their old boring 1,2,3, and 4 way systems. sorry...i know im getting carried away. i'll just end my post now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Warren Posted July 17, 2003 Share Posted July 17, 2003 ---------------- On 7/16/2003 10:38:17 PM TheEAR wrote: Home made speakers even using quality drivers do not match speakers designed by real pros who have serious tools to measure and verify performance using modern tools.I see many great looking DIY speakers,when its all said and done they more often then not DO NOT match the best pro designs. Its like Joe Blow trying to beat NASA or the Russian space program at home,yeah tough luck. --------------- This is a laugh! Klipsch retail is 5X raw material cost. That means an RF-7s at $1100 contain about $220 worth of drivers, network and enclosure. The enclosure is about 50% the raw material cost leaving about $110 for the two woofers, the mid-horn and the network. I've seen the 10" ceramic metal woofers on ebay for $35 so my numbers aren't that far off. I will take that $2200 and pump it into drivers and enclosure materials ANY DAY OF THE WEEK! I would blow away a pair of RF-7s so badly it would be embarassing. Regarding the NASA, Russia comment, you could not have picked a worse analogy (it's utterly ironical!!). I would give Joe Blow EVEN odds on that bet! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted July 17, 2003 Share Posted July 17, 2003 "This is a laugh!" Sure is Marylin You know I rushed the last post.As any well designed(by a pro)kit will as Marylin said outclass a brand name ready to use speakers. There are many kits sold using Eton,Dynaudio and a few other quality drivers with well designed crossovers that whip designs priced close in all aspects. I did not attack pro designed and proven kits,only pointed most home designed speakers do not compare well. DrWHO, You hand build your drivers! I did this a long time ago,as you discovered they are often not practical(BIG and funky looking). I prefer a Dynaudio,Focal or Accuton...much much more accurate.Well I know,half the fun is building it yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Warren Posted July 18, 2003 Share Posted July 18, 2003 ---------------- On 7/17/2003 7:21:28 PM TheEAR wrote: I did not attack pro designed and proven kits,only pointed most home designed speakers do not compare well. ---------------- *Most*.......you've heard *most* of them? Do you do the majority of your auditioning when you tag along with Santa?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted July 18, 2003 Share Posted July 18, 2003 "Do you do the majority of your auditioning when you tag along with Santa??" Yes Santa is the largest distributor Marylin "*Most*.......you've heard *most* of them?" No,but you Marylin must done IT with most of them. Now Marylin dont be so angry its not nice for a blonde to be so angry. If you continue this gestapo style questioning a la Hermann Goring I will be forced to call the stooges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.