JasN00b Posted August 3, 2003 Share Posted August 3, 2003 Well, now that summers come along, i'm finally a happy 15 year old with a disposable income anyway, my uncle is a woodworker who will help me build a subwoofer. therefore, i've decided i'd opt for that route because it appears you get more bass for your buck via the DIY route. size is no concern, i have a dedicated HT room, so the bigger.. the better like to keep it as cheap as possible, not sure how cheap they can get.. but sub-$800 is optimal thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tpg Posted August 3, 2003 Share Posted August 3, 2003 Pick up one (ore more) drivers from Adire. I just finished my sonosub (approx. 2.4cu.ft.) using the DPL12. I powered this with a 1100W Nady amp, and suitable levels are achieved. hehe Maybe spring for two Tempests with four PR-15's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fabulousfrankie Posted August 3, 2003 Share Posted August 3, 2003 I'd suggest setting a bit of that budget for a parametric eq like the Behringer Feedback Destroyer(mine cost $120) to help flatten room induced peaks. How big is the room? DIY is always the best way to get the most bang for your buck, especially when you have no size limit. Well, there's any number of things you can do. Is there an adjoining room, crawl space, or attic that could be use to implement and infinite baffle setup? If so, I feel this is the optimal way to go for bass. You also don't need to spend money on large amps for IB's so more money can be spent spent on drivers. Something like 4 of the Dayton IB 15's with a 380w Rythmik amp would certainly pound and it would certainly be in budget. Four 15's, the Rythmik amp, and BFD come up to $700. If you're like most 15 year old's, you don't own your own house and your parents down want holes in their wall or ceilings so IB is probably out of the question. I just wanted to throw it out there if it could work. For more IB info. go here. If the above is out of the question, I would look into two large vented enclosures and put an Adire Tempest in each($300 shipped). I woul do something like 225L tuned to 18hz. Build the enclosure upwards and stick a Quickrete 8" tube($5) as a port in each(from Home Depot). Two Rythmik 380w amps($310 shipped) would work well since they have continously variable phase and adjustable subsonic filters built in. That would put you at a total of $740 if you include a BFD(which I now consider mandatory for any of my future subs). You would probably better dual SVS Ultra's and down low you'd have a big advantage in porting with dual 8" ports. All of this for less than the price of a single CS Ultra with out an amp(or eq). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formica Posted August 4, 2003 Share Posted August 4, 2003 I agree with both of Frankie's suggestions... IB is hard to beat if you have the room, and the Tempest is an excellent driver for someone not concerned with enclosure volume. I don't recall you listening preferences, but if maximum bass extension is more important than SPL and flattest response... go with the recommended EBS alignment. If you want a flatter response and a little more SPL, you can go with the Adire alignment (it'll roll off a little earlier, but will be less prone to bottoming out). The Stryke AV15 woofers will give you a little more SPL in a smaller enclosure but cost a little more, and require more power as well (more $$). The high excursion woofers (tumult, HE15, etc...) aren't worth the $$ UNLESS enclosure volume is important to you... as adding several Tempests or AV15 will get to the same displacement for less money. Now, for the main question, where does one come up with: ---------------- disposable income ---------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasN00b Posted August 4, 2003 Author Share Posted August 4, 2003 i have a dedicated HT room that was built into my basement for use as a recording studio by the previous owner.. hes some sound engeneer... so suffice it to say, its sorta kina almost acoustically perfect IB is an option, but i'd prefer to go with a standard sub. to be honest, i'm not sure if i want high dB output or super-low bass... tommorow when i get my pay i'm going to go to radio shack and buy an SPL meter and see what my current setup is putting out before it bottoms out.. because.. well.. i want more than that the setup is used for prolly around.. 40% music, 60% HT. i also enjoy Dance/Techno music in addition to my usual palette(sp?) of rock such as Who, Zeppelin, Floyd, etc etc, so i need a fast sub... Can someone point me to some plans for the biggest, baddest sub-800 sub out there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tpg Posted August 4, 2003 Share Posted August 4, 2003 Fast sub: DPL12 in 2.5cu.ft sealed box. Sounds great, will get darned loud, and still hits LOW. This thing easily outdid my KSW-12 in low bass extension and SPL. The KSW woofer actually quit moving and was not even trying to play some test tones while the DPL12 was still shaking the floor. The MAXIMUM delay is 9.27ms, and that is at 19Hz. -3dB point at abour 28Hz. It rocks. I could not be more pleased. For the small amount of money I have in it, it is great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fabulousfrankie Posted August 4, 2003 Share Posted August 4, 2003 ---------------- to be honest, i'm not sure if i want high dB output or super-low bass... ---------------- You can easily get both and still have great sound quality if you can deal with a large enclosure and tune low. ---------------- Can someone point me to some plans for the biggest, baddest sub-800 sub out there? ---------------- Adire has some suggested designs for the Tempest on their site. They all include cabinet panel dimensions, bracing, and all if you don't want to fool around with WINISD. http://www.adireaudio.com/tech_papers/tempest_apps.htm My preference would be the EBS design for low, loud, and clean bass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fire pinch Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 I would suggest you for that price two Tempest box but even with the SBB4 alignment (see the reference designs in the Adire website), you will get very good sound quality. I have an HSU VTF-3 in the same room and they are very well known for their good sound quality in music. And I can tell you this: Even with the SBB4 design, the Tempest still sound insane and moreover, your boxes will be smaller and this will permit you to have more SPL. Myself, I have a SBB4 Tempest and I find that it can go plenty low with authority. If you choose to make two sub with this woofer and that alignment, I would suggest you to put a bit more polyfill to tame the mid-bass boost you normally have with that design. The result: not HUGE boxes (still big ), good sound quality, very good for your techno/dance, very good for having punch in HT, and high SPL. I think that with two Tempest, you will be very very impressed of how loud the bass can be for that much money. OR... if you want only ONE sub and a moderate sized one, not too big, I have in mind the Stryke AV-15. It would cost less than 2 tempest subs but evidently, the Stryke sub will be less powerfull than two tempest. Just to show you how much air each config can displace: Two Tempest: About 5 liters of air per stroke One AV-15: 3,8 liters The numbers you see suppose that the woofer use their maximum linear Xmax. In conclusion, if you dont mind to have two boxes which are not too small , I would take the dual Tempest setup. You can also if you want, to put the 2 tempest in a single enclosure but that enclosure will be damn huge!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasN00b Posted August 5, 2003 Author Share Posted August 5, 2003 how low will those reach? i'd like to get into sub 20hz material, i do have a spot in my heart for pipe-organ music Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 Where is Dustin? I start to worry,Mr DIY himself DUSTIN does not answer! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fabulousfrankie Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 ---------------- On 8/5/2003 11:55:11 AM TheEAR wrote: Where is Dustin? I start to worry,Mr DIY himself DUSTIN does not answer! ---------------- Maybe he didn't feel the need to respond since IB was already suggested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fabulousfrankie Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 ---------------- On 8/5/2003 6:02:05 AM JasN00b wrote: how low will those reach? i'd like to get into sub 20hz material, i do have a spot in my heart for pipe-organ music ---------------- If you take a look at the Adire's Tempest application pdf linked above, in their summary of each design, they give you an estimate of how low each design with play anechoic and in room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasN00b Posted August 5, 2003 Author Share Posted August 5, 2003 which encloser is optimal? sealed, ported, or PR? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formica Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 If you want low flat bass extension, you will be best served by a ported enclosure, either PR or vented. Ok, since it was so well written and I'm a little lazy, I copy and pasted a little info : "The sealed enclosure system is characterised by excellent transient response, good low frequency power handling, smaller box size and lower sensitivity to misaligned parameters when compared to other alignments. However, sealed enclosure systems tend to suffer from higher cutoff points and lower sensitivity than the other low frequency systems. They are usually the subwoofer system of choice for audiophiles because of their excellent transient response (i.e. no boomy sound) characteristics when designed and built properly." The Velo HGS18 is a sealed subwoofer "The ported enclosure system is characterised by lower distortion and higher power handling in the system's operating range, and lower cutoff frequency than a sealed enclosure system using the same driver. Distortion rapidly increases below the cutoff frequency however as the driver becomes unloaded, and the transient response of a ported enclosure system is usually inferior to that of a sealed enclosure system using the same driver. However, the lower cutoff frequency and better power handling within the system's passband often makes ported systems the alignment of choice for many speaker builders. Ported enclosure systems are much more sensitive to misaligned parameters than sealed enclosure systems." The Ariel SW12 is a vented subwoofer as well as all SVS products. A PR loaded sub is basically a ported enclosure and behaves similarly, except the fact that the possibility of port noise is eliminated. If you don't want to purchase a couple of PRs, you can also eliminate port noise by using a large vent... but the larger the vent the longer it will have to be for a given tuning. The RSW is a PR subwoofer. If you want to reach 20hz with authority, you will have to go with one of the ported enclosures... Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasN00b Posted August 5, 2003 Author Share Posted August 5, 2003 hmmm i think i'll investigate a PR sub. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 ---------------- On 8/3/2003 6:19:48 PM JasN00b wrote: Well, now that summers come along, i'm finally a happy 15 year old with a disposable income anyway, my uncle is a woodworker who will help me build a subwoofer. therefore, i've decided i'd opt for that route because it appears you get more bass for your buck via the DIY route. size is no concern, i have a dedicated HT room, so the bigger.. the better like to keep it as cheap as possible, not sure how cheap they can get.. but sub-$800 is optimal thanks ---------------- I am thinking of building one of these two DIY check em out.....http://www.decware.com/hwk15.htm i like this design probably sound good with my heresy HT...http://www.decware.com/wicked1.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fire pinch Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 JasN00b, The Tempests I suggested to you will give you plenty of low bass, be sure about that. I have a pretty huge house and Im upstairs. When I play the Hsu VTF-3 bass cd, I can feel the floor DOWNSTAIRS shaking (NOT ultra much but stil...), all stuffs rattle too, this is just so funny to hear! So this give you an idea of how good the dual Tempest could be. 2 of them would even be more insane! Almost as good as one Adire Tumult in power. I guess that the floor downstairs would shake more than a little bit... by the way, the floor under me shake far more hehehe! I have a video/photo/webcam, if you want, I can show you how what happens when I play 20 Hz contents! I really suggest you to choose the SBB4 vented enclosure. This will suit very well your needs in HT and techno/dance music. With the type of enclosure I suggested to you, the F3 point is at about 22 Hz, so dont worry about how good it is at 20 Hz. I can hit actually for sure 110 dB in my room at 20 Hz and this is with only one. Im gonna test it tomarrow so I will give you some numbers at 16, 20, 22, and 25 Hz with my Tempest in my 1500 cubic ft room. Yeah, my room isnt large compared to the rest of my house but you, with 2 tempest... . How big is your room? An EBS Tempest alignment would be even better in low bass but you would loose some SPL and some punch during HT movies. Moreover, it would be in the 300 liters range (this begins to be very big lol), so this is why I think that this would not the good one for you. You may have some doubts about the Tempest but trust those who have them... Trust also people who have built other high performance DIY subs like the Stryke-AV15, Tumults, Blueprints. The Tempest is really an insane sub for the money, I dont own any SVS but some told me that one Tempest is like one SVS Ultra. This is a damn good sub for the money. The only drawback I find for this sub, is how big you must build your enclosure, especially for ported one (for the two tempest I suggested for you they would be about 7.25 cubic ft big). But you said that you just dont mind of how big they would be so this is all superb! Do you have MSN? If you have it, dont hesitate... just PM me and I will say to ya my email adress if you want to talk to me more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fire pinch Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 JasN00b, The Tempests I suggested to you will give you plenty of low bass, be sure about that. I have a pretty huge house and Im upstairs. When I play the Hsu VTF-3 bass cd, I can feel the floor DOWNSTAIRS shaking (NOT ultra much but stil...), all stuffs rattle too, this is just so funny to hear! So this give you an idea of how good the dual Tempest could be. 2 of them would even be more insane! Almost as good as one Adire Tumult in power. I guess that the floor downstairs would shake more than a little bit... by the way, the floor under me shake far more hehehe! I have a video/photo/webcam, if you want, I can show you how what happens when I play 20 Hz contents! I really suggest you to choose the SBB4 vented enclosure. This will suit very well your needs in HT and techno/dance music. With the type of enclosure I suggested to you, the F3 point is at about 22 Hz, so dont worry about how good it is at 20 Hz. I can hit actually for sure 110 dB in my room at 20 Hz and this is with only one. Im gonna test it tomarrow so I will give you some numbers at 16, 20, 22, and 25 Hz with my Tempest in my 1500 cubic ft room. Yeah, my room isnt large compared to the rest of my house but you, with 2 tempest... . How big is your room? An EBS Tempest alignment would be even better in low bass but you would loose some SPL and some punch during HT movies. Moreover, it would be in the 300 liters range (this begins to be very big lol), so this is why I think that this would not the good one for you. You may have some doubts about the Tempest but trust those who have them... Trust also people who have built other high performance DIY subs like the Stryke-AV15, Tumults, Blueprints. The Tempest is really an insane sub for the money, I dont own any SVS but some told me that one Tempest is like one SVS Ultra. This is a damn good sub for the money. The only drawback I find for this sub, is how big you must build your enclosure, especially for ported one (for the two tempest I suggested for you they would be about 7.25 cubic ft big). But you said that you just dont mind of how big they would be so this is all superb! Do you have MSN? If you have it, dont hesitate... just PM me and I will say to ya my email adress if you want to talk to me more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fire pinch Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 OPPPPSS!! Im sorry for the double post If an admin could delete just one of them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formica Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 Hallwalker... The Decware HWB (House Wrecker Box) appears to be a standard 6th order bandpass system, where both the front and the rear volumes are vented. Its transient performance is usually worse than a regular sealed or ported enclosures and front and rear port noise can be a problem. The formats greatest strength lies in its capability of high SPL within it's tuning range. These reasons make it more popular for sound reinforcement, SPL car audio, and multimedia rather than high-end audio. BO$e use this for their low-frequency cabinets. The WO32 subwoofer is a variation of a horn loaded bass bin... and as appealing as this may be to a klipsch owner, physics limits it's effectiveness as a subwoofer. Horn loaded bass bins excel at both transient performance and SPL but the low frequency rolloff is dictated by the mouth/ length of the horn... a 20hz horn would be HUGE. The largish KHorn does have a f3 of about 35hz... good for a musical speaker but is nowhere near modern expectations of a HT subwoofer The Klipschorn and LaScala both use this type of bass bin I suppose it depends on what you are after from your subwoofer... Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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