AndyKubicki Posted August 18, 2003 Share Posted August 18, 2003 OK, having determined that I prefer good digital (that means NOT redbook, but the more hi-rez like SACD, DVD-a, Mallett Studios 24/192 etc) I still will need a good TT. I bought the cheap Scott to find that indeed, most records do indeed sound better than redbook CDs, but this is a cheapie 8 lbs TT. Having located a cartridge for my B&O 4002, I delved into its body and soul to find problems it has developed from my neglect over the years. The first thing I noticed was that the tone arm assembly moved very slowly, noisily and erratically. A little lubrication solved this problem, but now there is a new problem in that the tone arm does not go down to make contact with the record. I ordered a manual and will see what that has to offer. I suppose if I cannot fix it, there are some B&O experts on the web and I can always send it to one, but it would be more satisfying to do it myself. Meanwhile, my 16 year old is salivating at the proposition of inheriting the Scott TT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted August 18, 2003 Share Posted August 18, 2003 Most folks here haven't had much good to say about B&O TT's. I've never heard one, so I don't have an opinion. BTW, when I hooked my Wami up to my Living Room system for the Hornhead group the other day, I got some noise and hash on the front channels, but none on the back (different amp). I don't get any on my main system. I wasn't able to figure out what was going on, but perhaps I'll troubleshoot. Wonder if it's the same kind you were getting? While present whether the computer was on or off, it got worse when I turned it on and I could even hear the drives spin up. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyKubicki Posted August 18, 2003 Author Share Posted August 18, 2003 Given that in the late 70s the 4002 cost me as much as one of my unfinished KHorns, I figured the quality is enough to where it may be cost effective enough to repair vs getting something new. Then again... Interesting that your noise only showed up in one amp only. In my case it's probably the location of my WAMI. But I'm not hearing my HD spin up...sounds more like some circuits kicking in or something... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted August 18, 2003 Share Posted August 18, 2003 My Wami is a good 6 feet below the amp. I think I'll check into the power situation. Perhaps it's sharing power grounds or something like that. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyKubicki Posted August 20, 2003 Author Share Posted August 20, 2003 Most folks here haven't had much good to say about B&O TT's. I've never heard one, so I don't have an opinion. Well, I haven't heard a comparison, so it's impossible for me to tell, but it's got to be better than my 8 lbs Scott. I must say that since taking on this project, I am in awe of the technology of this thing! The suspension is awesome...the tangential tracking tone arm assembly and platter are suspended at several points on these metal things that are like miniature half-leaf springs, though they are more shaped like triangles. If you move the platter, the arm moves right with it, up down, left right, whatever direction. I got my cartridge yesterday, but I have a few obstackles left. Thankfully, I found a guy on the web who loves B&O (there are many actually) and has been fixing them and knows the tricks and what to look for. The tone arm is cued by a selenoid and damped in one direction (down, it has to go up quickly) by an air filled shock absorber, for example, and the levers connected to it will freeze up without being in use, as in mine. He said to heat the joint with a soldering iron to loosen the old grease-turned-glue. I would not have thought of that. So I got that part working and go to test it out with a din to rca adapter I bought. Turns out it's a male din, just like the male din on my TT. My son's Marantz has a din input for the tape, so I just plugged it in there to see if it tracks correctly, and it does! The mismatch of impeadance and lack of equalization did not allow me to hear the quality of the cartridge yet, but I think I'll just make my own rca cable ends and cut the din connector off and be done with it. Just gotta get the color codes for these wires. I'm sure there will be a few more little adjustments to make once I have the manual I ordered, but she's gettin there. This is exciting, I've had this since new and when CDs came out I thought I don't need it, thus the neglect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnysal Posted August 20, 2003 Share Posted August 20, 2003 have fun andy, that IS the most important thing. I had a tangential tracking arm turntable, though not from B&O mine was from Harmon and Kardon/Rabco, I spent more time adjusting the arm mechanism than listening on that thing! lol. I am sure (hope) yours is a better design. Regards and keep us informed. tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyKubicki Posted August 20, 2003 Author Share Posted August 20, 2003 Tony, it can be frustrating too, but the important thing is to get the information you need from those who have been there, done that. So it is rewarding when you do overcome what appeared to be an impossible obstacle. The B&O's tracking is accomplished by a light and light sensing unit which detects the movement of the arm and thus controls the motor turning the threaded rod which in turn moves the tone arm assembly at varying speeds. I have not yet had to do any adjustments on that, fortunately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted August 20, 2003 Share Posted August 20, 2003 Didn't know it was tangential. Badmouthing I've heard was limited to the other B&O's. The Rabco units were highly regarded, but keeping them properly aligned and working was an issue. Keep us informed (as I know you will!) Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyKubicki Posted August 20, 2003 Author Share Posted August 20, 2003 This isn't mine, but the same model someone has on eBay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyKubicki Posted August 21, 2003 Author Share Posted August 21, 2003 Mission accomplished! After finding the wrong pinout for DIN, then finding the right ones and resoldering these tiny freaking wires (they are a PITA!) I fired up a record and my Beogram 4002 played once again after 15-some years of silence. I'm sure I will be tweeking the suspension a bit as she was sagging somewhat...got her up to where it looks like she should be, though once I get my manual I'm sure I will find more to do. Can't listen too loud now, everyone's asleep, but we'll be rattling the rafters tomorrow! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnysal Posted August 21, 2003 Share Posted August 21, 2003 congrats andy! let us know how it sounds at a more reasonable hour! sure is purdy! regards, tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg928gts Posted August 21, 2003 Share Posted August 21, 2003 I have a fond memory of my early years when I was first introduced to audio equipment. The guys at New England Music Company here in Maine always had a way of making audio equipment demonstrations interesting and informative (unlike today - boring). They used to take a B&O turntable and gently toss it back and forth to each other while it was playing. It often skipped when one of them jerked it while passing it to the other person, but more often than not, a gentle pass was made with no problems at all. They would also bang their fist on the front corner of the unit while it was playing, quite hard actually. It was an impressive demonstration, and one that no other company in the area would dare try with their Dual, Technics, Phase Linear, or ?? brands. The good ol days, when going to an audio store was interesting. Now it's just one boring black box speaker after another (and yes, sorry, I'm talking about a Klipsch dealer). Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnalOg Posted August 21, 2003 Share Posted August 21, 2003 Andy, Don't do it you'll be hooked, its never ending. Albums, cartridge, better phono stage, better TT, better vinyl, better cartridge, very addictive sound when set up correctly. It gets to the soul of the music, unlike even a pricey cd player.JMHO Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyKubicki Posted August 21, 2003 Author Share Posted August 21, 2003 They used to take a B&O turntable and gently toss it back and forth to each other while it was playing. It often skipped when one of them jerked it while passing it to the other person, but more often than not, a gentle pass was made with no problems at all. They would also bang their fist on the front corner of the unit while it was playing, quite hard actually. I did not see the tossing demo, but I did see the fist bang and remember it to this day, though I don't know that I would now do that with mine. But the suspension is awesome and I have really a great respect for this technology! Interesting, this is at least a 20 year old belt, and it's still good! That blows me away! I thought for sure I would have to buy a newer one! Don't do it you'll be hooked, its never ending. Albums, cartridge, better phono stage, better TT, better vinyl, better cartridge, very addictive sound when set up correctly. It gets to the soul of the music, unlike even a pricey cd player.JMHO You forgot to add "spending countless time on audio forums". Well, I can't say you didn't warn me! I'm happy with current setup, but who knows, I may get tempted. Ultimately, I would like the hi-rez digital (SACD, DVD a, etc). There is a point at which a slight gain in sound is not worth the hassel of caring for vinyl. Compared to redbook, vinyl IS worth the extra headache. Look at what it took for me to get this together, many hours of my vacation time, but it was worth the effort and satisfying once the dragon is slain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnalOg Posted August 21, 2003 Share Posted August 21, 2003 "Compared to redbook, vinyl IS worth the extra headache." That is a for sure. I can't speak for SACD and the comparables. What really draws me in more than anything, is when a recording is done so well it truley has that sense of presence in the vocals. I mean really putting the artist in the room, and that all happening, not under the influence of any mental "inhancers" is a true joy to experience. I love when my aural senses and system are tuned to that point, WOW!! Sorry I think I was having a flash back there for a moment! Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyKubicki Posted August 23, 2003 Author Share Posted August 23, 2003 Don't do it you'll be hooked, its never ending. Albums, cartridge, better phono stage, better TT, better vinyl, better cartridge, very addictive sound when set up correctly. It gets to the soul of the music, unlike even a pricey cd player.JMHO You know, Tom, I may have to re-evaluate this. I got the manual a couple days ago and did some more adjustments (there are many!) to get the platter leveled and at the correct hight, to make sure the arm is in the right place and perpendicular to the record's radius, and tracking force etc. I finally gave it a listen. Distortion! drats!! Looked at the stylus, brushed it off. Looked at the tracking force...just a litle over a gram. Let's go to 1.5. Much better! What a sound! First of all, this TT is much less noisy than the Scott. The only noise I hear when turned up on the 222D is the tube noise. No hum, no buzz. That's better construction for ya. This cartridge also seems stronger in the bass dept...more beefy than the one on the Scott TT. It's also not as susceptible to surface noise. But here's the rub: when I bought it, I did so because the seller included a printout from B&O of the cartridge's performance. I did not think that the difference in response at the higher end would be too noticable, but it is. I compared the CD of Alan Parsons I Robot to the record (half speed master) and the CD was more balanced as far as cymbals in both channels, where the left channel on the B&O was not reproducing those highs as well as the right. The sound in general is awesome, causing an even wider gap between vinyl and redbook. But the imbalance may drive me to wanting to spend (gulp!) the money on one of the newer cartridges that the Soundsmith has made ($265 or $435 for their top of the line) or to get the MMC 20 SR for $350 at Elexaterier...GULP! That would sure put off the possibility of an SACD player...gotta ponder this... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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