garymd Posted September 17, 2003 Share Posted September 17, 2003 I spent yesterday setting up my 165 in my main listening room yesterday. It is sitting in my tv stand on a nice leveled sink thingy (I don't recall what brand but I'm sure it's a very nice one) that I may buy from another forum member who was over yesterday. I do believe it helped the sound and certainly helps when I'm walking around the room. My question is: How can I tell if the speed on the TT is correct. I've always had a strobe on my DD with speed adjustments. There are a couple lps that sound just a tad slow to me. Others sound fine. I know there's a way to test. I just don't know what it is. Thanks. Also, on some lps the hole is too small to fit on the TT. I've been using a screwdriver very gently to increase the hole size slightly. I'm sure there's a better tool to use but this seems to be working ok and it's happening on LOTS of lps (mostly 70s era). Is this common? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryC Posted September 17, 2003 Share Posted September 17, 2003 ***I spent yesterday setting up my 165 in my main listening room yesterday. It is sitting in my tv stand on a nice leveled sink thingy (I don't recall what brand but I'm sure it's a very nice one) that I may buy from another forum member who was over yesterday. I do believe it helped the sound and certainly helps when I'm walking around the room. My question is: How can I tell if the speed on the TT is correct. I've always had a strobe on my DD with speed adjustments. There are a couple lps that sound just a tad slow to me. Others sound fine. I know there's a way to test. I just don't know what it is. Also, on some lps the hole is too small to fit on the TT. I've been using a screwdriver very gently to increase the hole size slightly. I'm sure there's a better tool to use but this seems to be working ok and it's happening on LOTS of lps (mostly 70s era). Is this common? Thanks. *** Gary, I have a 4" strobe disk you can borrow, it fits over the spindle and you shine an AC light on it to create a strobe effect. Not many of my LPs had too-small holes, and I think I enlarged them by carving away with a table knife. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymd Posted September 17, 2003 Author Share Posted September 17, 2003 Thanks Larry. I'll borrow that when we get together after the storm. I hope your house stays nice and dry. I'd be a little worried about all those big trees in your neighborhood. I always hear of giant oaks falling through peoples houses in your area when we have storms. I really like the Townshend sink and I think it helps. Thanks for the loan. If the strobe shows the table to be slow, I'll have to figure out how to adjust (the belt supposedly is new). It's always something! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryC Posted September 17, 2003 Share Posted September 17, 2003 ---------------- On 9/17/2003 1:13:43 PM garymd wrote: Thanks Larry. I'll borrow that when we get together after the storm. I hope your house stays nice and dry. I'd be a little worried about all those big trees in your neighborhood. I always hear of giant oaks falling through peoples houses in your area when we have storms. I really like the Townshend sink and I think it helps. Thanks for the loan. If the strobe shows the table to be slow, I'll have to figure out how to adjust (the belt supposedly is new). It's always something! ---------------- You're very welcome. I like what they do, too. I just put potentially airborne yard items into the garage and banked soil around a leaky basement window -- I've never had 6"-10" of rain fall on my house and property! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted September 17, 2003 Share Posted September 17, 2003 A light really isn't needed although it makes it easier. The lines will stop still with or without a light there is a Disk somewhere on the Net that you can print out I did it once but can't for the darned on me find the link now. Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3dzapper Posted September 17, 2003 Share Posted September 17, 2003 larryclare, Can you scan that disk and post it? Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted September 17, 2003 Share Posted September 17, 2003 I found it !! Here you go http://mywebpages.comcast.net/craigostby/60Hz.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymd Posted September 17, 2003 Author Share Posted September 17, 2003 Thanks Craig. I don't know how you remember all this stuff you keep pulling off the web along with old emails! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Bey Posted September 18, 2003 Share Posted September 18, 2003 Gary, for those LPs that have too small a hole I usually lean them up against a tree and enlarge the hole with a quick round from a .22. Actually the 165 is a very good table. Treat it well and you will be pleased how much you get out of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryC Posted September 18, 2003 Share Posted September 18, 2003 Craig, that's really a nice one, and super-convenient. FWIW, it reassuringly gives exactly the same results as my old Dual metal disk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymd Posted September 18, 2003 Author Share Posted September 18, 2003 Randy, Well I dont have a .22 but I'll find something better than a screwdriver. It seems almost every other lp I try is too small. You never had this problem with your 165? I'll check the speed tonight if we still have power. Thanks Craig. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Bey Posted September 19, 2003 Share Posted September 19, 2003 some are snug but I just shove it in there. Reminds me of my wedding bed... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymd Posted September 24, 2003 Author Share Posted September 24, 2003 Either the speed is really off or that disk I printed from Craig's site doesn't work for me. All I get is a blurred line, both on the 33 1/3 and 45. Maybe Larry will let me borrow his strobe next week when we get together. Can anyone tell me how to adjust the speed on a thorens 165? I haven't opened it up yet but can I assume there is an adjustment to the belt somewhere inside? Thanks for any help. BTW - I made another lp killing at the library today. Someone dropped off a stack of mint lps including 4 James Taylor albums, 1 I've been searching for for quite a while (Mud Slide Slim). All in mint condition including the covers. The JTs might be reissues because they all have the nice Warner Bros plastic inserts (not sure they came with the originals). Also, ALL THE DAM HOLES ARE TOO SMALL! In the stack was also some Buffalo Springfield, Bread, The Byrds and, get this, a pretty nice copy of "The Partridge Family Album." I know I'll catch some slack for that but I had to get it. There were 17 in all. A good score for the day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryC Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 ---------------- On 9/24/2003 9:05:10 PM garymd wrote: Either the speed is really off or that disk I printed from Craig's site doesn't work for me. All I get is a blurred line, both on the 33 1/3 and 45. Maybe Larry will let me borrow his strobe next week when we get together. Can anyone tell me how to adjust the speed on a thorens 165? I haven't opened it up yet but can I assume there is an adjustment to the belt somewhere inside? Thanks for any help. BTW - I made another lp killing at the library today. Someone dropped off a stack of mint lps including 4 James Taylor albums, 1 I've been searching for for quite a while (Mud Slide Slim). All in mint condition including the covers. The JTs might be reissues because they all have the nice Warner Bros plastic inserts (not sure they came with the originals). Also, ALL THE DAM HOLES ARE TOO SMALL! In the stack was also some Buffalo Springfield, Bread, The Byrds and, get this, a pretty nice copy of "The Partridge Family Album." I know I'll catch some slack for that but I had to get it. There were 17 in all. A good score for the day. ---------------- Gary, I'll be glad to loan you the disk, but I thought it and Craig's were equally easy to read. The blurring makes me wonder -- is there a strong enough AC light on the strobe, especially in your sunny listening room? Do you have a fluorescent lamp, to maybe bring it out better? I'd also wondered if it didn't have a speed irregularity, when you described it as "slow" earlier -- a variable speed is much easier to hear than a slow steady speed, and sometimes is mistaken for slow. I think you should see the strobe effect of lines standing still (accurate speed) or drifting forward (fast) or backward (slow). I'd be surprised if it were that far off. Also, when/if you do see the steady lines, are they stable, or do they vary or drift at different rates, suggesting an unsteady speed? Does the motor seem to rotate smoothly and quietly? I can't understand why the spindle is too large for that many LPs -- I had the problem in the past for a small number of London records, but it was definitely not the norm and wasn't the case for the library records I bought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Good2BHome Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 I went to the site Craig shared with us and printed the picture. I have a reasonably good HP 952C printer. I also have a Thorens TD-280 Mark III TT. It is very important to get the center hole in the center, so I used a ice pick to make the initial hole and slowly enlarged it until a center punch would fit and finished the job. The result was fuzzy, but good enough to determine that both the 33 aqnd 45 speeds are correct with a little concentration on just one area. Consumer scanners and printers are not perfect and any change in size and sharpeness can impact using this method, of coarse a real strobe sheet would be best, but it worked for me. Thanks Craig and All, Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymd Posted October 1, 2003 Author Share Posted October 1, 2003 I figured out why I couldn't see the strobe effect. As Larry explained to me, you need AC light. I was using a flashlight (bad). Once I corrected my error the table tested fine. The speed is right on. That begs the question: Why is the matching JT cd so much faster than the lp? Is that what you all mean when you say a cd sounds compressed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben. Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 Gary- Compression typically referred to here is dynamic range compression applied during recording and/or mastering. Not a bad thing if done properly for the genre. What you are hearing is probably an error in digital mastering. A famous, analog example of this is Kind of Blue (Miles). In the original mastering process, a tape deck was running off speed. The result is that the ORIGINAL album is playing about a semitone sharp. "So What" is in AABA form, modal centers being D dorian and Eflat dorian. One can play the original LP in the same room as a piano (or whatever), and using speed adjustment on the TT, "tune" the record back to the original key and tempo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben. Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 BTW, CBS fixed this on a recent reissue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymd Posted October 2, 2003 Author Share Posted October 2, 2003 I recently bought the latest CD remaster. Is that the one you're referring to? It's an excellent recording. I never owned the lp so this CD is my point of reference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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