Rockets Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 I have a question on the frequency response curve of both. The JBL 2404h I can see on the JBLPRO website, but have yet to find one for the K-77. Has anyone seen one? How does it compare? Most importantly how do they compare to the ear? Reason for me asking is I have yet to purchase either. The JBL's are much more expensive and I'm wondering if I should just bite the bullet and get them, or stick with the less expensive K-77's? Thanks for the help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WMcD Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 Look in the 2-channel section for mOOn's post of Sept 15 with the subject matter of the angle of sound. In my first response with graphics I posted the radiation pattern of a woofer. In the second one with graphics I posted part of the spec sheet for the T-35A. That is a K77, though the Klipsch units were hand picked. Probalby the spec sheet reflects the best of the T-35A too. In addition to the polar plots in that second graphic, there is one with fundamental and harmonics. The fundamental is what you're looking for as far as frequency response. I might have heard the JBL in an IMAX theater, but that is the extent of my experience. No doubt the JBL is a beauty. These constant directivity horns are the work of D.B. Don Keele. I love to read his pre prints to the AES. If I can be an apolgist for the T-35A: It is smaller(fits in the cabinet hole), cheaper, pre dates the JBL by at least 30 years (it is not an ignorant design), and almost keeps up with the JBL on axis. In Klipsch applications we're using it only above 6 kHz. If it rolls off earlier up near 15 kHz, I wonder how many can hear it. Best, Gil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAKO Posted October 3, 2003 Share Posted October 3, 2003 I prefer the JBL 2404 Its smooth from 5 K to 21.5 K HZ The K77 may go to 17 k but the ones ive checked start taking a dive at 10 to 15 K Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockets Posted October 3, 2003 Author Share Posted October 3, 2003 Thanks guys, that gives me an idea of where I need to go. I really didn't want to spend the money for the JBL's, but it looks like I will. I wish I could do an A/B on them first! The plot on the JBL is far from perfect, but the K-77 appears to lose close to 10db within it's usable range. While I question whether I can hear much above 15Khz, losing 10db sure ain't gonna help! Is the debate on the JBL 2123 vs. a horn still alive? I'm interested in A/B compares with a K-55, 511 B, and maybe a 311-90. I haven't seen much posted on it and wondered if there was any concensus on them. Maybe I need to post that question? I was tempted to bid on some Altec 1003's, but their SIZE killed that idea. I have some crossover questions to ask, but need to do some homework first, so I'll come back question in hand at a later date. Thanks again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WMcD Posted October 3, 2003 Share Posted October 3, 2003 Buying quality is seldom a bad investment. You cant lose too much in that unlike some stock market investments, they will probably hold their value. I'm not saying that the T-35 is the best for every application. For example, the tweeters in my Forte II and Quartets sound darn good. I have three EV SB-350s which have never been put into service. They may be the precursor to the JBLs in that they folllow Don Keele's design theory. Let us know what happens. I didn't see anything in the baby cheeks spec about crossovers. Perhaps the info is elsewhere on the JBL site. Perhaps. Best, Gil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3dzapper Posted October 3, 2003 Share Posted October 3, 2003 I've been pondering something. Human hearing ranges from 20-20khz and audio manufacturers and reviewers use this as the bible. In the real world, when the bow crosses the strings or the trumphet hits the high note, what is the frequency at the top and what happens to those high frequencies as they cross space from the stage and into the audience? Are they attenuated away to a great extent? I can not use my own experience since my hf hearing was affected by working in close proximity to running jet engines while in theUSAF and years of rock and roll.(plus shooting, work, etc.)I can only hear up to 12khz or so. Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q-Man Posted October 3, 2003 Share Posted October 3, 2003 Rockets, Look under Odds and Mods and maybe updating older speakers. I have a few post on some Altec and other horns, also the JBL 2404H. I'll try to find them and bring them up again. I'm almot ready to post a few new pictures of this mod. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BerndH Posted October 3, 2003 Share Posted October 3, 2003 I owned both tweeters. All i can say is forget the spec sheets and listen to both. The spec sheet don't show how they sound. The 2404 is a very smooth tweeter although the K-77 isn't harsh. The decision which tweeter is better is a matter of personal taste. I for mine choosed the K-77 and sold the 2404, because i found the K-77 fits better the overall sound of the Klipschorn. On the other side you can find that Q-Man, whom i respect, likes in his modded Klipschorn the 2404. Buy both tweeters and compare. The one you like keep and the other pair sell. There is no problem to sell them for really good prices, so you don't have to fear to loose money. I sold the 2404 for half the price (about 250,00$) i paid for a used pair of K-77 and K-55 and K-400 and AA-network. Find yourself out which is better! There is no loose. Bernd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockets Posted October 4, 2003 Author Share Posted October 4, 2003 RE: I for mine choosed the K-77 and sold the 2404, because i found the K-77 fits better the overall sound of the Klipschorn. Damn! I wish you hadn't said that! LOL! Here I was set on the JBL's and you countered with this!! Now you have me vascillating again. (Don't get any phunny ideas here, I'm not that kinda guy) You are correct that I should A/B test them myself. However, I was trying to avoid buying several different drivers, because it would get out of control with me. It'd be like opening Pandora's box...nearly never ending and with my family room looking like my garage (( Trust me doing A/B test on several different drivers and horns was my first inclination until I thought it through abit. I've deceided to make a set by 'concensus', probably another big mistake... Q-man, I read several of those threads in the past and YOU (ok, and a couple of your other non-conformist bud's) are the reason I'm in the situation I'm in now! In the beginnning all I wanted to do was build a set of Lascala clones and be happy!! (sigh) Then the more I read, the more things became uncertain on which direction to proceed. This project is turning into a MONSTER and I haven't even started yet!! (maybe Dicovery channel material here?) Anyway, the questions, and emotions are raging. Cost vs. performance. ALK vs. AL-3 crossovers, Air-Core vs. Litz, 2404h vs K-77, Altec vs. K-55 (and lets not forget the horn driver debate) or the JBL 2123 compares, K-33 vs. a couple of wannabe's that cost less, like the Kappa C....AND do I build in the vented base bin mod for another 3db on the lower end?!??! What effect will using a alternative to the K-33 have on that? But WAIT! If I use the JBL 2123's mids, I'll have to redesign and recalc the vented base chamber...This wears me out just thinking about it... Thanks GUYS!! Is there anyone else out there that has strong feeling for the K-77? Seriously, if you think it such a close call between the two that it really doesn't matter I'd like to know. Or any of the 'other' above mentioned I'd appreciate it. Thanks again for the input. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAKO Posted October 4, 2003 Share Posted October 4, 2003 ROCKETS ... The spec chart on 2404 is not avery good one all scrunched together the standard frequency chart is very smooth. I dont know why JBL printed that. The polar plots are more accurate. 2404 is a sweet sounding unit. JOHN WARREN did the 2123 dual 10" mid driver construction. He can explain the details about mass rolloff concerning the problems of K77 & EV T35 I would not reccomend the K77. It should have been retired long ago. Also the newer K77 is now 1 1/2 db less efficient. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djk Posted October 4, 2003 Share Posted October 4, 2003 http://www.geocities.com/cansakarcan/k77-fft.jpg "Aþaðýdaki grafikte kýrmýzý çizgi orijinal pozisyondaki" Red is original mounting "yeþil ise önden monte edilmiþ pozisyondaki frekans yanýtsama eðrisini gösteriyor." Yellow/green is flush mount to the exterior "Klipschorn'daki gibi kabine önden monte etmenin daha iyi sonuç verdiðini düþünüyor" Klipschorn outside mount eliminates sonic disruption. Have no idea what language this is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted October 4, 2003 Share Posted October 4, 2003 It it a Turkish dialect. If you right click on the geocities page and go to encoding, it tells you that. Marvel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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