chambers1517 Posted October 10, 2003 Share Posted October 10, 2003 I have 2 khorns and 3 lascalas in a home theater. What sub would keep up with these 5 speakers at high volumes. I don't want to be maxed out on my sub while my other speakers are coasting. I realize it may take 2 but what would you consider first? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danechristian Posted October 10, 2003 Share Posted October 10, 2003 svs b4 plus. or wait for the svs pb2 ultra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danechristian Posted October 10, 2003 Share Posted October 10, 2003 oops double post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jstanton Posted October 10, 2003 Share Posted October 10, 2003 Two Acoustic Visions Denalis. Or one Acoustic Visions Everest. Or (if you got the cake) TWO Everests. (These babys gots the best subwoofer driver available in them) . If these don't keep up, nothing will! SEE HERE: http://www.acoustic-visions.com/~acoustic/products/subwoofers/pre_finished/pinnacle_index.shtml Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frzninvt Posted October 10, 2003 Share Posted October 10, 2003 I use a Velodyne F-1500R and a DBX SW-3830 (DVC) (passive) with a DBX BX-2 250W X 2 amplifier feeding it. Both subwoofers are 15 inchers. The Velodyne digs deep and hits hard it literally moved the floor and walls. I would suggest at a minimum dual 15" subwoofers. I have never heard the SVS's but they get alot of publicity here, a Velodyne HGS-18II and HGS-15II to go along with it would do nicely but could be hard on the old pocketbook. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fabulousfrankie Posted October 10, 2003 Share Posted October 10, 2003 What kind of budget are you working with? There are many options, but the cheapest way to get what you want will probably be going with SVS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formica Posted October 10, 2003 Share Posted October 10, 2003 Budget, the ever so important factor and evil limiter to grandeur... I think the recommendations are what I've come to expect here (I would have made the same suggestions)... and should match pretty well with what you got. Remember though that one of the most important factors in bass reproduction is the room it self (and it's resonances). SV Subwoofers are at : www.svsubwoofers.com Acoustic Visions are at: www.acoustic-visions.com Velodyne Subwoofers are at: www.velodyne.com Obviously their top of the line subs are great performers, but they also have the corresponding price tags... Later... Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chambers1517 Posted October 10, 2003 Author Share Posted October 10, 2003 I sure don't have an unlimited budget but I would rather get 2 real good subs, one sub at a time, than two lesser subs at once. Does anything compare to the Denali in that price range? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jstanton Posted October 13, 2003 Share Posted October 13, 2003 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formica Posted October 13, 2003 Share Posted October 13, 2003 ---------------- On 10/13/2003 4:46:51 PM jstanton wrote: ---------------- Jstanton; I was expecting a little more elaboration... Actually using a separate power amp, as you do, gives the option of a little more power to push the Tumult closer to it's capacity. I would love to hear that combo with the Klipschs. chambers1517; SVS has a gap where this sub sits... right between the B4 and the PB2-Plus. Based on the specs, performance should put it close to B4... as it should outperform the PB2-Plus and the PB2-Ultra (soon to be realeased). Unfortunately none of these beasts are readily available for testing. Although there has been quite a bit of talk about the soon to be released DIYcable Exodus sub, it is basically a sealed version using the same Tumult driver. The vented Denali should easily outperform it in extension and power. Let us know which way you lean... Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jstanton Posted October 14, 2003 Share Posted October 14, 2003 ---------------- On 10/13/2003 11:02:51 PM formica wrote: ---------------- On 10/13/2003 4:46:51 PM jstanton wrote: ---------------- Jstanton; I was expecting a little more elaboration... ; Actually using a separate power amp, as you do, gives the option of a little more power to push the Tumult closer to it's capacity; I would love to hear that combo with the Klipschs. ___________________________________________________________________ Hey Rob: I would have elaborated more but I usually post at work and sometimes do not have the time to carry on about this or that, I was just trying to answer his question about alternative subs. SVS is a good place to find a comparable sub to a Denaii (in bang for buck and quality of bass). That's about all I know... I initially started out with the idea of getting an SVS sub, BUT the way Acoustic Visions works you can get your sub "tailor made", so-to-speak. You have choices of size of enclosure/tune frequency, finish, drivers, PR'ed or ported, assembled, partially assembled, assembled without finish, etc etc. you get the picture. With this approach, one is more intimately involved in the genesis of the sub from the ground up. I originally had Kyle put an AV-15 in the sub, but I badly abused & smoked the driver. I decided to go with a Tumult replacement instead of reparing the AV-15 (the Tu,ult drops right in). Try doing that with a "commercial" sub. You do not have to just pick a stock sub out of a catalog (unless you want to), which is where Acoustic Visions "Pinnacle Series" comes in. They're finished and ready to roll. Or you can order the sub in pieces and a bottle of glue and bang it together yourself. Depends on what you want. Flexibility is the name of the game with the "custom sub" routine. You can have SPECIFICALLY what you want rather than something off the shelf. __________________________________________________________________ "Although there has been quite a bit of talk about the soon to be released DIYcable Exodus sub, it is basically a sealed version using the same Tumult driver. The vented Denali should easily outperform it in extension and power." __________________________________________________________________ Rob: Is that Exodus sub the one with that 18" XBL^2 driver they've been ranting about on HTF? I guess there may be a new kid on the block besides the Tumult as far as killer subwoofer drivers go. There goes the neighborhood... Note: The Denali isn't ported, it has two 18"/2200 gm Stryke passive radiators...It should outgun a sealed sub. I'm using a 50 Hz low-pass FMOD so that the sub only has to deal with that last octave and 1/3 (16-50 Hz) where the K-horns are rolled off. I am getting ready ti BFD it once I get my Stryke Bass Zone test disk and a Rane Balance Buddy to correct for the -4dBu to +10 dBv difference between the home and pro audio components. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fabulousfrankie Posted October 14, 2003 Share Posted October 14, 2003 Is that Exodus sub the one with that 18" XBL^2 driver they've been ranting about on HTF? I guess there may be a new kid on the block besides the Tumult as far as killer subwoofer drivers go. There goes the neighborhood... It's *only* a Tumult. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyKlipschFan Posted October 14, 2003 Share Posted October 14, 2003 Before you do not look at the obvious... Try the Ref...RSW 15" by all means try one out. The upper end Klipsch speakers and subs are a great match. With K horns they go very low and may not need a sub? Especially for music. In a HT situation they might? do? Please be aware the La Scalas are low to about about 50 Htz. So your sub may be "dialed in" for instance like in my set up from my preferences ( maybe not your own) at 60-80 and below. Room style, treatment, size, and position of the sub, do make huge differences as well. Do not be confused with boominess (with harmonics to boot) with a clean thump in your face and solid lows you can feel as well. Not to nock the older versions of subs Klipsch made, at the time they were pretty good. But I feel the new Reference lineup is great, and a lot of you not trying it out on older Heritage as well as Reference speakers are missing the obvious benefits of your mains and sub being made by the same company. (I am sure 100% they checked for good voicing as well as compatibility.) Lows are a different situation in HT yes, the criticalness of say a tweeter and mid range timbre or in the case of the REF series, the same horn, do make a difference in say the heritage and reference lineup. And they do sound different. In a sub situation... you want solid clean chest thumping non harmonic distorted beautiful lows. And guess what klipsch got it right... Finally. A lot of manufactuers have entry level subs that well lets be honest, suck. If your willing to place your desired situation and dream sub within grasp and you have some extra $$ where your wallet is? Then step up to the plate and hear for yourself.. I feel for HT situations, with the Ref 15" you will be very happy!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formica Posted October 14, 2003 Share Posted October 14, 2003 ---------------- On 10/14/2003 11:47:31 AM jstanton wrote: Is that Exodus sub the one with that 18" XBL^2 driver they've been ranting about on HTF? ---------------- Actually it isn't the 18" XBL... just a regular Adire Tumult in a sealed box and no special tricks like Linkwitz Transform (sp?). I think the talk is mostly aimed at the fact that it's an "off the shelf" unit... I believe the only 18" XBL sub available currently would be the Resonant Engineering XXX for car audio. later... Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted October 14, 2003 Share Posted October 14, 2003 Dont forget the JBL bass bins offered at their Tent sales that Tom Brennan was recommending here. Search the sub forum for any of these words. The JBL bass bins are big and ugly, and require work and amps, but you get a lot of mid-bass bang for your buck. You could place one on top of each big ole horn. As for subs, if you study the frequency response of your big ole horns and any intended sub, you will find that only a few very deep or powerful subwoofers, such as the tall SVS tubes, will match the frequency response of big ole horns, IF you want flat and accurate frequency response. If all you want is more punch for movies, then any powerful sub with prodigious output in the 40Hz area will do great. According to the excellent Brain Weatherhead article, Subwoofers Under the Christmas Tree, (December, 2001) the Klipsch KSW is the most economical value in his sample, while the RSW is the only sub with high output in both the 100Hz upper bass and the 30Hz deep bass regions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jstanton Posted October 14, 2003 Share Posted October 14, 2003 CAR AUDIO???!!? (followed by choking, gagging, spitting-up sound...) Sheesh, I was worried there for a second Rob. That's different. Okay then, no doubt two 18" PRs will outgun the sealed version of the Tumult (and I don't even know how to use WinISD). I'm sure the RSW-15 is a fine sub. But for K-horns I thought one could do a LITTLE better with a lower tuned sub. It's the LOWEST octave that I want a sub to cover when matched with K-horns. With an RSW-15 I think you would be competing somewhat with the K-horn in a region of bass that I would prefer to let the K-horns handle on their own, UNLESS you are a "True Believer" in SMALL speaker serttings. I am not sold on that concept yet. Why on earth get K-horns just to set them to SMALL? I will run bookshelves before I do that. For one thing, what would be the point in having full-range DD and DTS channels in movies if you are not gonna use them? I have set all channels to LARGE, and will eventually get subwoofers to go with my rear surround KLF-30s. Those channels are created full-range for a reason, and not just so that one can press a button to disable the LF for those channels. They are created full-range because THAT'S HOW THE DIRECTOR INTENDED THEM TO BE. I've already converted my center channel to "full-range" by running a center pre-out on my Yamaha DSP-A1 to a KSW-15 subwoofer (and setting it next to, and slightly behind the TV set). I was amazed to find out that the center channel really IS full-range even for TV programming! !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chambers1517 Posted October 15, 2003 Author Share Posted October 15, 2003 Thanks for all the feedback. Here's another question. Due to my room I am running my surrounds in the rear corners on stands to bring the tweeters up even with the khorns. I am leaning towards the denali. It is 24x24, almost the exact size of a lascala. I could place them in the rear corners and put the lascalas on them. I don't have front corners due to the khorns. My screen is about 18 inches from the floor and 18 inches from the khorns on each side, so front placement is impossible. What do you guys think about this idea? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jstanton Posted October 15, 2003 Share Posted October 15, 2003 Hmmmm....subs in back under LaScalas...hmmmmm....You COULD definitely put your LaScalas on top of the Denalis as far as them being able to support the weight. Kyle at Acoustic Visions builds the Denalis with TWO 3/4" MDF pieces/side (1-1/2 inch thick) and they are sturdy and inflexible. They're also around 150 lbs or so. However, in reading about subwoofers on the net I have heard that rear placement of subwoofers is to be avoided, the front is better for sub placement. I do not remember the reasoning behind it but it has something to do with the time it takes for the sound to reach you. Maybe somebody else will be so kind as to verify or dispute this. Where I have my Denali is directly in front of my left Klipschorn (shoved up against it, basically), not due to any sonic considerations, but because it was the ONLY place to put it!!. If you can imagiine a 17" X 13" square room, K-horns in two corners (on the long wall), KLF-30s in the back corners, a KSW-15 up front with a 32" Sony TV AND a large wrap-around couch in there to boot...there is no room left for the Denali except cozied up to the Left K-horn. There's only a small strip of floor in front of the couch which does not have speakers or electronics on it. Like sitting inside a pair of headphones practically. In any case, my Denali goes fine up front, directly in front of the K-horn. Get that Denali and you'll be cooking with gas for sure pal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formica Posted October 15, 2003 Share Posted October 15, 2003 If you place a sub in a corner, it will excite the room nodes whether it's up front or out back... and also given the fact that bass is pretty unidirectional at low frequencies, I don't see a major difference between front of rear placement. Maybe someone could confirm (or contradict) this I can say that having two subs in opposite corners can always be a challenge in balancing and avoiding phase cancellations but this is true for both front and rear placement. I think having the subs double for stands is a nifty idea, even though it'll limit placement. I'd suggest posting the question in the architecture section, as artto is the man to talk to for "room effects". Later... Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formica Posted October 15, 2003 Share Posted October 15, 2003 I forgot to warn you that he is known for his somewhat "blunt" posts... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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