michael hurd Posted November 4, 2003 Share Posted November 4, 2003 I like my marantz receiver, and not many here have them. A lot of talk is about the denon avr receivers, and a lot of people here have them. Granted, I don't have the extreme sensitivity like heritage, but hiss or noise is virtualy nil, unless the volume is maxed out. Even when listening to music, I have the source direct feature engaged, and use the optical digital input. I found that any other processing or soundfields, produce more noise than when using the source direct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frzninvt Posted November 4, 2003 Author Share Posted November 4, 2003 The unit is back at United Radio (Denon's Regional Super Service Center, ISO 9002 certified) the Technical Manager has stepped in to personnally oversee the servicing of my unit now. They found the subwoofer output transistors that they just replaced already leaky and he wants me to check my subwoofer RCA's to make sure they are not back feeding voltage into the subwoofer input on the receiver. In addition, each time that you would do a reinitialization of the unit you would end up with different results so they are replacing the main processor in it as well. I had no processor problems prior to sending the unit in for service. I sent it in due to a pop in the subwoofer output when switching between sources. The Tech Mgr assures me it will be perfect when I get it back. I have looked into the B&K Ref 30 and found one for $1075, I also found the one that you mention with the upgrade to the Ref 31 but the guy is looking to get $1700 for it. I asked the one guy a simple question like does the Ref 30 support the DTS-ES and DD 6.1 formats and he emailed me a PDF file of the user manual, Huh? I thought it was a simple enough question. I have enough amplifiers to power all the speakers if I go with the B&K, but I did some reading on Audioreview.com and a number of customers complained of clicking and popping of relays when switching sources so why would I want to shell out the cash to purchase a unit that can possibly do the same damn things that I sent my Denon in for service for. I guess I am going to just have to wait and see how my Denon makes out, if anything I would purchase a newer 4802 or 4802R to replace the 4800 as I really like the unit. Thanks for the tips! All these awesome movies are coming out and my HT is crippled right now since my Denon is in for brain surgery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBB Posted November 4, 2003 Share Posted November 4, 2003 YO, Frzninvt! Are these the people you are dealing with to have your Denon fixed????? UNITED RADIO 2949 ERIE BLVD EAST SYRACUSE, NY 13224 1-800-634-8606 (Tel)Managers name Jim Fitzgerald on EXT 3242. 315-445-3317 (Fax) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frzninvt Posted November 5, 2003 Author Share Posted November 5, 2003 That's the place! I am working with an individual called Wayne at X3108 right now. They are currently waiting for parts to arrive. All I know is it better be perfect when I get it back! You have some connections there BBB? I sent my Alpine top of line CDA-7949 to them for service and they did a wonderful job, they really dropped the ball on my Denon though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBB Posted November 5, 2003 Share Posted November 5, 2003 No Frzninvt. I dont have any connections there. I wish I did. This is the place where the Onkyo 989 owners, on the east coast, were sending their units for upgrades. People had nothing but complaints coming out of the wahzoo concerning this outfit. People kept on blaming Onkyo for mistakes and shipping problems BUT the people in the west that used another service didnt have any hassles. People were hand delivering and waiting at this place in Syracuse to make sure they did the job right. What a headache. Units were returned not working properly, LIKE YOURS, shipping damage etc, etc, etc. So even though I paid for the upgrade I never sent the unit in because people were getting a messed up receiver returned to them after these guys got their hands on them. The only people that got any satisfaction were the ones that spent half their lives E-mailing and phoning the people at Onkyo in Saddle River N.J. complaining over and over again about United Radio .If these people were not at the core of all the problems why did the people that sent their units to the other location that Onkyo designated, the A B L Corp. in Madison Heights, MI. , have nothing but praises for the service they received? People on the east coast wanted to send their units to ABL instead of United after they heard about the complaints from Onkyo owners who had sent their units to United with horror stories like sending the unit in, getting it back a month later, sending it in again after not working and getting it back another month later and arriving at their home damaged. Who needs that nonsense? BUT Onkyo wouldnt let you switch service centers. What a drag. I wasnt about to send in a perfectly good working piece of gear that I paid 3,300 dollars for to Nowhere Land just to end up with a buzzing, humming, dented pile of junk. United Radio is a warranty repair house for many brands and I got the impression they handle a $4,000 item with the same care they would use on a $15 set of headphones. What makes it worse Onkyo INSISTED on using UPS after they sent you a flimsy box that would require a miracle for anything weighing 65 pounds to arrive undamaged anywhere. UPS!!! Oh brother. Dont get me started on those guys. They cant deliver a one pound piece of granite sealed in a 4 X4 foot triple lined stainless steel reinforced box without the rock ending up as space dust. Give me a break. Good Luck and keep your fingers AND toes crossed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frzninvt Posted November 5, 2003 Author Share Posted November 5, 2003 Geez, I had to ask! I feel so much better about my $2500 Denon being in their hands now. I just called Denon Customer Service to inform them of my experiences with them. I left a message I hope someone phones me back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burtlively Posted November 5, 2003 Share Posted November 5, 2003 i'm not sure about all the surround formats of the ref 30. the ref 50 can be had for $2200. if you can get the ref 30 for $1000 or less, you can contact b&k to get the upgrade for $500 - $600 (i'm not sure of the exact cost). i have looked at the manual and cannot decipher what surround formats it supports, but the bottom line is after you upgrade, it will support everything imaginable. the one caveat is the remote. the ref 50 uses the ht master 700 and it is absolutely awesome!!! i know the ref 30 has a good remote, but it isn't the ht master 700. nevertheless you have to determine whether it is worth the coin to get into separates. i can tell you from past experience that although your denon is top shelf, moving to a separate preamp/processor will absolutely blow your mind. the sound and flexibility is incredible! i have not second guessed my purchase for a millisecond. the ref 50 has provided the most important upgrade to my system i have ever made. on the topic of the popping when changing sources, i have read the same reviews. it does happen sporadically with my system, but it is no big deal. i have found it to be annoying only when i had the volume way up and chose to change sources. obviously others have strong opinions in the other direction. i have also heard challenges with talking to a human from b&k support, but when i called to get some direction on using the rs-232 port, i got a human within 30 seconds. there is a good b&k forum at home theater spot if you want some more perspectives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klipper Posted November 14, 2003 Share Posted November 14, 2003 WoW sorry to hear about your gear I have the 4800 denon and its one excellent receiver give them one more shot at getting it fixed right good luck and hope everthing works out for you stay cool and take care Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flason Posted November 15, 2003 Share Posted November 15, 2003 Did you get it back yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frzninvt Posted November 16, 2003 Author Share Posted November 16, 2003 I got a call on Thursday 11/13 from the technician at United Radio to let me know it was complete and was going to go through the QC department next and then ship out on Friday 11/14 so I should receive it on Monday 11/17. I will have to let it thaw out before connecting it as it is already in the 20's and 30's up here. I broke down and dragged the AVR-3300 from the bedroom into the living room so I could have a functional HT while I waited for my 4800 to return. It had better be right this time or I give up! They replaced all the transistors again in the muting circuit and replaced the main processor so I can only cross my fingers and hope at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frzninvt Posted November 21, 2003 Author Share Posted November 21, 2003 It's back! The digital switching is working correctly but I still get an annoying pop/thump through the subwoofer when in DD mode. No issues in analog mode in switching between sources etc. For example when you put a DVD in, as the DVD is going through all the opening nonsense before getting to the movie menu at this point it is only in Dolby Pro-Logic mode but when it toggles to DD mode I get a thump through the subwoofer, if you advance chapters I get a thump, if I go into FF search I get a repetative thump, thump, thump I give up. The popping, buzzing and relay issues related to the B&K Ref 30 are enough to make me not want it. I guess it may be a AVR-4802 or 4802R. HK has too many issues from what I have read even though I do like the looks of the 7200. I don't want a Pioneer either. I don't care for the looks of the Outlaw 950 so I guess I don't know where to go from here. I guess I'll just have to live with it the way it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strabo Posted November 21, 2003 Share Posted November 21, 2003 See if you can audition it at home if you go the 4802 route. I had one for a month and it was way to bright on my Forte's. Traded it back in for my current set up and I'm much happier. No more ear pain. It might be able to control your La's better but FWIW, I prefered my $700 Yamaha PL reciever over that Denon. I can't see your signature as I type this, but if your using outboard amps why not just get a preamp and be done with recievers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael hurd Posted November 21, 2003 Share Posted November 21, 2003 Stiil not right? Call and complain! You definately should have it repaired properly. If they can't do the job right the 2nd time, then I would call denon's rep and tell them they have lost a customer. When he askes why, tell him the spiel. If he tries to sell you the sun, moon, and stars, just tell him you are selling it on e-bay and ordering a B&K. That should get his attention! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBB Posted November 22, 2003 Share Posted November 22, 2003 ---------------- On 11/21/2003 11:02:46 AM Frzninvt wrote: It's back! The digital switching is working correctly but I still get an annoying pop/thump through the subwoofer when in DD mode. No issues in analog mode in switching between sources etc. For example when you put a DVD in, as the DVD is going through all the opening nonsense before getting to the movie menu at this point it is only in Dolby Pro-Logic mode but when it toggles to DD mode I get a thump through the subwoofer, if you advance chapters I get a thump, if I go into FF search I get a repetative thump, thump, thump I give up. ---------------- Frzninvt, I have a question. Is this thumping that you are hearing something that has happened since the first day you owned the receiver or is it a sound that suddenly started happening or just slowly developed to the point where you were noticing it too often to be part of the units normal operation. Did the Denon people admit that it is a problem or is it just part of the nature of the beast that they won't admit can be remedied? Did you notice it after adding any new equipment?(Subs, DVD player, etc) In other words have you heard of any other 4800 owners having this problem and did the techs seem to think it is a common problem that is easily repairable? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flason Posted November 22, 2003 Share Posted November 22, 2003 I have the Ref30 and have no issues with popping. I had an issue with my old cable box with popping when changing digital stations, but replaced the cable box and the issue is resolved. The Ref is dead quiet and switching is flawless. Sorry to hear about the Denon, but do check your sources. I know how frustrating it is, but don't give up on that Denon yet, though I would give up on United Audio. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skonopa Posted November 22, 2003 Share Posted November 22, 2003 ---------------- On 11/22/2003 10:05:16 AM BBB wrote: Did the Denon people admit that it is a problem or is it just part of the nature of the beast that they won't admit can be remedied? Did you notice it after adding any new equipment?(Subs, DVD player, etc) ---------------- I don't know about the 4800, but I do know my 3802 is dead quiet when I switch sources or playback modes. I can hear the relay click, but that is all, which I expected it would do. My old Yamaha also clicked when I switch sources and modes. However, I never did hear any "thumps" or any other kind of noise out of my speakers or subs. I am also now curious. Could this be a part of the nature of the beast in the older Denons - something that may have been remedied in the newer iterations, such as in the '02, or '03 versions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frzninvt Posted November 24, 2003 Author Share Posted November 24, 2003 My Denon unit was initially sent in for a popping in the subwoofer in the Analog mode. When I got it back it had strangely carried over into the Digital domain as it now works correctly in the Analog mode. The second time it went back they had somehow screwed up the Digital switching the receiver would not display the correct Digital format being played and the active speaker LED's were not working. When they got it the 2nd time they said they could not find anything wrong and sent it back. When I got it would not work "at all" nothing, no output, "Zero" then it went back for the third time. The Tech Mgr got involved and it is working somewhat with the exception of the thump in the subwoofer output when in Digital mode. It will happen when it toggles between Dobly Pro Logic and Dolby Digital, it will also do it if you advance chapters. If you use the fast search mode I get a repetative thump, thump, thump. It has been to United Radio "3" times. I give up. I have called Denon and left a message but have gotten no calls returned. United Radio has offered to refund my initial payment to get the unit repaired the first time, and I use the term repaired very loosely, since they created another problem in it that I never had before. I am absolutely certain the unit did not do this prior to sending it in for servicing. I have spoken to another forum member with a 4800 and he does not have the issue I describe. I can't understand why they do not have the ability to locate and fix the issue since they tout themselves as the Denon Regional Super Service Center! In addition, while the unit was in their hands they manage to cause damage to the front fascia in the way of some nicks in three places in the brushed aluminum. I am pretty fed up with Denon and United Radio at this point and I am unsure what to do. I don't think Denon deserves to see anymore of my money with they have been horrible to respond to a customer. I don't think I want to send this thing to Denon for servicing either I have been without it long enough and I will just deal with the issue for the time being until I decide how I am going to proceed. Thanks everyone for your help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark1101 Posted November 24, 2003 Share Posted November 24, 2003 Ut Oh. I am from Syracuse and am very familiar with United Radio. They have repaired some of my gear before. They were a small repair business that has grown to be the Walmart of repair centers. If you have ever been there you would see they are authorized to repair almost every make of any type of electric gear you can think of. It's a big place with a lot of techs sitting at benchs, and it is expensive to get something fixed there. A few times, it was so expensive, I tossed the piece. They have a good reputation in general, or at least used to. I have lived in Georgia for the last 4 years. They have the capabilities to get it right, but I would bet that they don't get much practice on those Denon 4800s. It's all about which tech you get and how much familiarity he has with your unit. It sounds like you have a lemon to begin with, sorry. I had a Yamaha like that that they never got right. They continued to stand behind their work, but they never got it right. I hope you have better luck in the end. By the way, I have an older Denon unit with less features, but I do not have your problem. In fact over the years my AVR 1200 has been one of the very best receivers I have owned, and it continues to perform just fine. I like Denon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frzninvt Posted November 24, 2003 Author Share Posted November 24, 2003 To my total suprise Jim from Denon called me up and I gave him the low down on what had transpired and he offered to have Denon's tech's give it a look. No sooner that that happened my brother in law contacted me about the receiver since I offered to sell it to him and he was interest. I had called my area Denon dealer to price an AVR-4802R and got offered a nice price on it. I then asked him about going the seperates route since I have all the outboard amplification that I need. He offered me the new B&K Ref 50 for the same price as the AVR-4802R, so guess what I chose. Yippeeee I am getting the new B&K Ref 50! Yeah Baby, now were talking. This should bring me to a whole new level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burtlively Posted November 24, 2003 Share Posted November 24, 2003 you will be EXTREMELY happy w/the ref 50. make sure you take the time to set it up. there is a ton of customization to do and it will be well worth the time spent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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