neo33 Posted November 14, 2003 Share Posted November 14, 2003 I have been offered a chance to buy the best used 300B SET amps (so he said), a pair of Cary 805C monoblocks in good condition for a very reasonable price. The problem is I have never listen to the 805Cs and I don't know what is the reasonable price. Is $3,000 a worthwhile investment? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted November 14, 2003 Share Posted November 14, 2003 This is not a 300B amp, although the later models did replace the EL-34 driver with the 300B. Early models of this amp had the 211 output tube with the EL-34 drivers and supposedly were 50wpc SET amplifiers (that was stretching it). Cary later replaced the 211 output with the 845 although both can still be used. The latest version has 2 6SN7 instead of one. The model you seem to be looking into has the single 6SN7, 300B driver, and the 845 output tube (a high power directly heated triode). He has WE300B as well. You are essentially looking at over a 25wpc SET amp. These amps always get excellent reviews and have been featured on many an audio rag cover. I havent heard the "C" version and last compared the Cary 805 with 211 output to the Cary 300se and thought the 300se to edge it out. Still, the 805 is a damn beast of an amp. Listen, I know I have been talking about selling my Moondogs. But this deal right down the road from you is amazing. I would go and audition this amazing deal on both components and offer him $4400 on the spot. Then I would sell the AE-1 to Sprocket or anyone willing to come up with $600 or so (factory wired). That 98 has oil caps and an upgraded MC phono stage. The price he is asking is a STEAL and he wants to sell both. This Bay Area deal on the SLP-98 with MC phono and Cary 805C with WE 300B is a cant lose situation. If we dont work out a deal, this is the way I would go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Mandaville Posted November 14, 2003 Share Posted November 14, 2003 Neo: These are special amps! Take KH's advice on this!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neo33 Posted November 14, 2003 Author Share Posted November 14, 2003 Kelly, if you're talking about this deal on Audiogon, then it is not the same. These monoblocks are unmodified and don't have extra inputs for subwoofer. Anyway, now that I know they're not 300B amps. And I will not give up the pursuit of 2A3 SET. I want your Moondogs, Kelly. And please don't make me suffer the agonizing wait. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted November 14, 2003 Share Posted November 14, 2003 Dont you live in the San Fran Bay area? Look at the deal above. This is THE best deal I have seen in awhile considering the tubes involved and what you get. The SLP-98 has an MC phono stage with a stepup transformer for only $1500. And he wants to sell them as a package. The Cary 805C with Western Electric 300B and 845 power tube combined with that 98 is a DEAL at his asking price. I was just giving you the straight on this.... I dropped you a mail earlier. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neo33 Posted November 14, 2003 Author Share Posted November 14, 2003 Kelly, I am only asking questions about the 805Cs out of curiosity and I have no intention of buying them. I have already made up my mind to go with 2A3 SET. Beside, I like the AE-1 and I will get a separate phono stage for it. Later on I plan to upgrade the AE-1 with even better parts. If I don't get your Moondogs, I'll probably go with Ron's SET DRDs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted November 14, 2003 Share Posted November 14, 2003 Too bad. I would love to sell my Moondogs to you. But to be honest, that deal in your area is one of the better deals I have seen. I think the Cary 805C would make any speaker matching a moot point and with that SLP-98 with MC phono deal, and down the street from you,.....well, it's hard to beat. Suprized you arent even considering it. It answers most of your questions and needs in one fell swoop. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neo33 Posted November 14, 2003 Author Share Posted November 14, 2003 Kelly, you got mail! I may audition the 805C later on for comparison. But after having auditioned Ron's 2A3 SET DRDs from a friend (spent 5 hours at his house), my gut feeling is telling me that I am not going to be happy with non 2A3 SET sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisK Posted November 14, 2003 Share Posted November 14, 2003 Kelly, Saw the 805c/98p combo on Audiogon yesterday morning. It's taking every ounce of willpower I can muster to keep from driving up to the Bay Area today and picking them up. Unfortunately, they are just too much overkill for my present listening room and I don't have the floor space to properly secure them. I can just imagine my 9yo son or one of his friends riding by them on one of their "Razor's" and OH NO!....sorry....I didn't mean to.... BTW, Why are 805c's and SL-98P's so plentiful on the used market and usually at what appears to be reasonable prices? Everything I've heard and read says the 805c is a fabulous amp and likely "the last amp you'll ever buy". What's up? Is it partly due to their ponderous size? Do they eat tubes? Chris PS Craig, Thanks for the help with the phono stage hum on my 299. The cheater plug did the trick. It's dead quiet. BTW, this little amp is quite amazing. I'm into it for about $600 and the darn thing is making it easy to put off a purchase like the one considered above. Go figure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnysal Posted November 14, 2003 Share Posted November 14, 2003 neo, you will not know if you will not be happy with non-2A3 SET sound until you audition thusly. go hear the 805C becasue I too think it best to hear something with a little more balls to match your speakers than a 2A3 SET. I would think a minimum would be a 300B SET for your speaks, but I have mentioned this before. tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBryan Posted November 14, 2003 Share Posted November 14, 2003 Neo, The 805C monos are excellent examples of SET amps and you would not have any problems matching them to most 90+dB efficient speakers. The 2A3 is a great tube to work with and there are plenty of well-designed amps built around that tube but you're painting yourself into a corner with its 3.5 watts. Your room is small enough and if the music doesn't exceed 90dB, you'll be fine but you're just getting started - why put such constraints on yourself? You may very well end up with a 2A3 (or 45, 25, 10, etc) amp but that really depends on the efficiency of your speakers and your willingness to compromise power for finesse. In the meantime, you should concentrate on getting a SET amp that will not leave you wondering what all the fuss is about. The obvious mistake I see folks committing is trying to match a low-power SET amp with less than ideal speakers. At first they are enamored by the detail, transparency and dynamic transients of the SET sound and can't imagine how they lived without the "magic". As they start playing more demanding music and cranking Jimi Hendrix to concert levels, they begin to notice a bit of compression and distortion at the top and a discernible lack of bass. At this point they take one of two paths - either they scrap the amp and complain that SET just doesn't have enough power for anything other than club jazz or chamber music or they realize that they need more effficient speakers. Since a decent, comparatively priced PP or (god forbid) SS amp will provide more than enough watts to power their speakers and a 5dB increase in efficiency more often than not requires an investment of several thousand dollars, the choice becomes somewhat of a probability. Only those enthusiasts willing to spend 1000s more will have the opportunity to hear a properly matched SET system and there's just not that many adventurous souls out there. Of course, this doesn't even address the need and expense to match sources, ICs and speaker wires which is essential for sensitive SET amps. Given all the expense and experimentation that must go into a decent SET set up, its no wonder so many folks bail after encountering their first obstacle or if astute, never venture into the low-power bog to begin with. While I don't think that higher-power SET amps are the end-all be-all of SET, I would suggest that more people would be satisfied if the amp was able to drive their speakers in the first place. In my limited experience, a 45 amp (1.5w) will not drive Cornwalls in my room (16'x25') to 95dB without compression and underwhelming bass but will chase people out of the room on Khorns before it begins to clip. A 2A3 amp will drive both speakers fairly well and a 300b will offer more than enough power for the CWs and Khorns. I've never heard the RF-7s but I'd be very wary of the impedance match with SET amps - at least as much as the efficiency. Bottom line is that you need to consider a lot of factors when matching components with SET amps and it is far easier to start your journey with more power than you need. It'll allow you to build a system and get a good impression of the SET sound. Once you have an idea of what SET can offer and what factors you're willing to compromise (power, finesse, $, etc.) you can try other amps and speakers to get closer to the ideal system and your very own audio nirvana. Its just a suggestion and I wanted to point out that several of the folks encouraging you to go for the 805Cs (or higher power amps) have taken similar journeys and are offering sound advise so you wont become disillusioned and put off by SET. Have fun - Bryan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted November 14, 2003 Share Posted November 14, 2003 I think maybe the reason we see quite a bit of Cary stuff moving is because as great as it sounds, it is best matched up with more sensitive speakers. Even the preamps, which I think are amazing sounding, do tend to the warm side of things -- and probably just don't provide enough bite for folks using itty bitty soft domes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted November 14, 2003 Share Posted November 14, 2003 plus I think Cary sold a lot of stuff after their Stereophile recommnedations, like Hondas, they have a very high resale value.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neo33 Posted November 14, 2003 Author Share Posted November 14, 2003 Eventhough I don't check Audiogon regularly like others here, I have notice that any good deal (let alone great deal like the Cary SLP-70P which is gone the same day it's being listed) on Audiogon is usually gone in a day and a half or so (especially anything that is Stereophile recommended, not that I care about Stereophile or anything) no matter where the seller is located. The Cary SLP 98P preamp and 805C amp combo deal (which I have seen only after Kelly mentioned) has been there for 3 days and nearly 1,000 views. One has to raise a question about this "great" deal. Perhaps, the "very high resale value" scares people away? Kelly, as a side question, you have recommended against high power triode (the 811, I believe), why not this one, too? Also, you seem to think that the true 300B version is better, why is that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted November 14, 2003 Share Posted November 14, 2003 Chris, Glad it did the trick. Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBryan Posted November 14, 2003 Share Posted November 14, 2003 The guy prefers a pickup in SF so maybe he's waiting for a local response. There's also a chance that he realized that he could get more $ or maybe he's reconsidered his options and decided to keep them. The more likely possibility is that he's already made a deal on the pieces but hasn't revised or removed the ad - it happens. Surely, at that price he's had plenty of opportunities to unload them - even locally so I doubt they're still available. - Bryan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neo33 Posted November 14, 2003 Author Share Posted November 14, 2003 Another great sale gone on the same day listed? This one (gone in an instant) is interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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