leok Posted November 23, 2003 Share Posted November 23, 2003 I finally installed the Jensen PIO caps in the two series positions in the RF-7 HF crossover. The lead the RF-7s had over the Chorus in high end clarity is now much more obvious. The smooth accuracy that the Jensens gave the Chorus midrange does also work on the RF-7 horns. The nice thing about the RF-7s is the benefit doesn't get sliced-up by a tweeter crossover. Violin upper harmonics, and bow sounds are much more like the real thing than the Chorus-II. The RF-7, relative to its previous performance sounds smoother and more extended. There are some quirks, a screech or two that I've learned to associate with PIO burn-in. The Chorus-IIs have finally stopped doing those things. This is a very hard mod. But more than worth it if you like realistic high freq. detail. I continue to be impressed with what the RF-7 will do with some customization. Leo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted November 24, 2003 Share Posted November 24, 2003 I continue to be impresssed with Jensen oil caps. Although expensive, especially the larger value in the Copper Foil, these caps have a natural, lack of etched quality that is hard to decribe. They are not rolled off in my view, actually providing more detail, especially harmonically. The sense of natural air is amazing with no bleaching. They are the SET sound of the capacitors I have found, providing a more natural and open take than even many of the finest film/foils samples. My next preamp will forgo the expensive MIT Multicap RTX film/foils in place of the Copper Foil Jensen oils. I have yet to try any Jensens in the crossover position but in coupling, they can be amazing in the right system. Les Lammers had a fine helping of positives with the Jensen oils in his LaScala (he sold them awhile back and left Klipsch). Luckily Jensen has been doing this for about 50 years and have gotten pretty damn good at it. Audio Note branched off and started making their own take with a silver foil version as well. But the greatest deal money wise is the Angela brand of the Jensen versions if they dont gouge you on the shipping. Given the quality of sound, I dont find the Jensen's overpriced. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted November 24, 2003 Share Posted November 24, 2003 Ryan, which Jensen oils did you use in the Scott? I presume you attempted to use the Aluminum version? I have never seen anyone put the copper foils in something like a Scott or EICO as the cost would be prohibitive, not to mention the room, which would be a NO go in most of the intergrateds unless you modified the bottom plate. These are larger than the stock caps although with more chance of fitting in a Scott (they might fit here). They simply WONT fit in the EICO. Secondly, I have never heard anyone prefer the Vitamin Q caps to the better Jensens either as most find the Vitamin Q comparatively a bit more slow and thicker sounding. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Mobley Posted November 24, 2003 Share Posted November 24, 2003 here's my nice 222C as I got it from Pland (Pat Landrum). He had replaced the coupling caps as you can see.... Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted November 24, 2003 Share Posted November 24, 2003 Tom, You might add to that the fact they don't sound any better than the Russian Film and Foils for ten times less money (the ones everyone so restlessly calls PIO caps). I have tried Jensons in a Stereo 70 and found them to be dangerous and horrible sounding to my ears. As soon as you pushed the amp hard they leaked DC and the amps bias into a frenzy ! I do not like any of the PIO capacitors that I have tried so far at all ! As far as I'm concerned there just a romantic Audiophile blast from the past over priced to a ridicules proportion to boot especially Jenson's I bet they laugh all the way to the bank. I'm sure there a great choice for speaker crossover duty but then who knows maybe not. Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted November 24, 2003 Share Posted November 24, 2003 The Copper Foil Jensen PIO caps only come in 630v and 1000v. In addition, to the best of my knowledge, neither the Aluminum or Copper Jensen's come in .25 size. I think they go from .22 up to .33 but nothing inbetween. And I dont think the Copper Foil Jensen are available in 4uF. At least, I have NEVER seen them anywhere in that size. A pair of 1uf Copper PIO Jensen are around $41 a piece to give you an idea. The Aluminum Foil Jensen are much less. Angela Instruments has the cheapest prices by a bit and even though they say "Angela" on them, there are JENSEN. They are an official distributor. kh ps- Those are indeed the Jensen Coppers (in four of the positions. I remember talking to Pat on the phone about installing these in that Scott. I dont know of another that has them. They really are a bit much cost-wise to put in the Scott. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark1101 Posted November 24, 2003 Share Posted November 24, 2003 Tom, That's a clean looking unit. How did you get it so clean? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted November 24, 2003 Share Posted November 24, 2003 Those were which Jensen, Craig? It would be nice to make a distinction as they WERE aluminum. Most use the Alum in speaker positions. Most opt for the COPPER FOILS used as coupling caps, not the Aluminums. Still, your comments remain in the minority. The Jensen caps are not that much more expensive than many film/foils and quite a bit less than some of the higher priced examples. kh ps- I hope you followed the Jensen recommendation on breakin time (highly doubtful). Every distributor makes note of this aspect with Jensen caps, from Alum to Silver. Leo even notes it above. They have a VERY long burn in time. I dont know what the condition of those caps were but I would have sent them back to Jensen, a very reputable company. As for the Tom comparison, this would seem a bit unfair considering you have 4 output vs the entire mix replaced. ON ANOTHER NOTE, Craig, I would love to drop the Russian at .22uf (4 total) in my Moondogs for a direct comparison. IT would be interesting to hear, though the Russians are getting more $$. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Mobley Posted November 24, 2003 Share Posted November 24, 2003 Ryan, I'll end up doing that. This is just the way I got it. I have (had) another 222C, I replaced all the caps in it with Craigs Russian stuff, it sounded wonderful. I just sold it, the MO came in this morning, I gotta ship it. It's just killer on the LS or KHorns. Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Painful Reality Posted November 24, 2003 Share Posted November 24, 2003 ---------------- On 11/24/2003 3:38:49 PM NOSValves wrote: Tom, You might add to that the fact they don't sound any better than the Russian Film and Foils for ten times less money (the ones everyone so restlessly calls PIO caps). I have tried Jensons in a Stereo 70 and found them to be dangerous and horrible sounding to my ears. As soon as you pushed the amp hard they leaked DC and the amps bias into a frenzy ! I do not like any of the PIO capacitors that I have tried so far at all ! As far as I'm concerned there just a romantic Audiophile blast from the past over priced to a ridicules proportion to boot especially Jenson's I bet they laugh all the way to the bank. I'm sure there a great choice for speaker crossover duty but then who knows maybe not. Craig ---------------- Are you talking about the Jetsons or the Jensen? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted November 24, 2003 Share Posted November 24, 2003 Jenson's absolutely !! I could careless about breakin DC leakage is DC leakage the #1 and foremost function of a coupling cap is to block DC. Its also nice if they allow the AC signal through with out much coloration. Paper in Oil caps are known far and wide to leak DC when pushed this is not a secret ! They are a very crude and old fashion way of making coupling caps. Maybe some people prefer the sound of tubes widely varying there operating state during music playing I don't like the effects myself. As always its a each to his own thing like all things in this hobby. Craig PS Kelly explain to me what difference it makes whether there Aluminum or Copper as far as DC leakage goes ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Painful Reality Posted November 24, 2003 Share Posted November 24, 2003 I never saw a Johnson leak DC. But I guess defective units may happen from time to time. Would I put a Jonhson cap in a Scutt or an Echo amp? Probably not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted November 24, 2003 Share Posted November 24, 2003 I'm pretty sure you have never checked !! Why would you I pretty sure all your amps are self biased. This was a absolute measured and proven accurance on 4 caps !! At or near idle no leakage and steady negative voltage to the grid as you turn the amp up the negative voltage would drop. Changing caps no more drop ! Craig Why is it your posts seem more and more meaningless anymore ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted November 24, 2003 Share Posted November 24, 2003 Well, I guess that about wraps it up; all Jensen caps pretty much are crap. Nice to know there are so many delusional people in this world that only buy for reputation as it gives huxters like Jensen and others ways to make a living. I know I was fooled as were many, many others. Thanks for setting us straight on this matter. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted November 24, 2003 Share Posted November 24, 2003 Practicing to be a pr!ck again I see ! What else is new &*)(^(_*) All I did was share the experience I had with them nothing more nothing less ! To bad if it doesn't mesh with your Audiophile Ideals ! When did I say they were crap ?? Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strabo Posted November 24, 2003 Share Posted November 24, 2003 ---------------- On 11/24/2003 3:39:16 PM mobile homeless wrote: And I dont think the Copper Foil Jensen are available in 4uF. At least, I have NEVER seen them anywhere in that size. A pair of 1uf Copper PIO Jensen are around $41 a piece to give you an idea. The Aluminum Foil Jensen are much less. kh ---------------- I wonder how big a 4uf would be if they made it. The 1.5uf I just recieved for my Forte crossovers is about the size of a D cell battery, maybe even slightly larger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted November 24, 2003 Share Posted November 24, 2003 Jeff has written me to say there are up to 10uf versions of the Copper Foils oils. The 1uf Copper Foils in Chris' preamp were monsters as well, far larger than the 1uF Alum editions. The smaller coupling Copper foils are much more reasonable and, as stated, worth the price in my opinion. So far, they come in the #1 slot of any quality cap I have tried. Perhaps Jeff will chime in on the best pricing for the larger variety. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Robinson Posted November 24, 2003 Share Posted November 24, 2003 Tiny little depth charges. Beautiful, visually and sonically. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Mandaville Posted November 24, 2003 Share Posted November 24, 2003 place two 2uf in parallel and you get 4uf. one on-top-of-other, side by side, either way will work fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted November 24, 2003 Share Posted November 24, 2003 Ryan, The Jensen capacitors are NOT dangerous, as some were led to believe in an above post. THEY use a different dielectric, a dielectric with different properties. In the case of the Dyna 70 mentioned above, the negative bias only had to be increased slightly to compensate, not a problem. My Vitamin Q capacitors have a certain amount of DC leakage as well, in fact, all PIO capacitors do. This is NOT a defect in the capacitor, just one of its properties. You spent all that time posting this and in the end just agreed with me in your last paragraph ! Raising the bias to compensate for a leaky cap is just a bandaid ! If this is the case then why replace old leaky capacitors just raise the bias voltage it will fix it LOL !! If the cap leaks at a varying rate during operation it will have a negative effect of the sound and operation of the amp in question. The sealing of the ends of the cap have nothing to do with them leaking DC ! Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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