Erik Mandaville Posted November 27, 2003 Share Posted November 27, 2003 I'm very interested in learning more about and experimenting with push-pull triodes. Based on what Paul has explained to me, they could be very good; and possibly subjectively better than SET (which I will still cherish!) It might depend on the application, and a host of other things. I have found a bunch of nice looking PP schematics that could be built with acquired parts that were pulls from other vintage components. I think a good PP triode amp could be incredible -- and I would love to get my hands on an old pair of Brook amps. Thanks for posting the picture, these are pretty rare animals! I just don't want to close the door on other things, despite how fond I've been of 2A3 SET amps. Anway, Happy Turkey day! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted November 27, 2003 Share Posted November 27, 2003 It's been kind of fun posting less and just lurking for a change. It's amazing how you guys keep shooting over each other's heads -- sometimes there is even agreement, but then extra effort is put forth to give the appearance that there is no agreement! Paul has been very specific with his objections, and it should be clear, even to the casual reader that his problem is not with the SET topology itself, but rather with power levels that are insufficient for certain types of music, or even less complex types in larger settings. "The Push-Pull Brigade" simply objects to the SET recommendation when it is obviously NOT the proper or best recommendation. In spite of the haggling here, there has of late been a much more objective and balanced view from both sides of the table. Kelly, you said two things I want to address: "...SET is the most natural sounding topology I have heard..." and "...most higher wattage amps have MORE distortion at lower levels, this a place where the 104dB speaker is living most of the time." I don't really have a problem with the former, except to say that part of "natural" involves more than just proper tone and timbre. I think this certainly ties in with Paul's feelings. Hair trigger dynamics and getting a room properly loaded also contribute greatly to the accurate reproduction of certain musical events. I DO wonder how much of this "naturalness" is related to SET, and how much to DHT -- regardless of topology. The latter makes me wonder which is worse -- distortion as a result of an amplifer being pushed beyond it's limits, or the slightly evelated distortion levels of a higher powered amp being played at low levels. I also wonder if someone like me had 104db speakers if they would really be living down low "most of the time". I just think if a person can only afford to build one system, and doesn't have the luxury of a budget that allows experimentation -- they should get the cleanest most musical 15 to 30 watts they can afford. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted November 27, 2003 Author Share Posted November 27, 2003 ---------------- On 11/27/2003 5:25:30 PM DeanG wrote: Hair trigger dynamics and getting a room properly loaded also contribute greatly to the accurate reproduction of certain musical events. ---------------- Well said, Dean. An incredibly fast-reacting speaker that can handle extremely loud transients effortlessly deserves to have enough power to do the job. I have no doubt that an excellent low-power amp will suffice under most conditions. But most isn't all and I don't want to cheat the speakers out of functioning to their fullest. I'm looking forward to your reaction to listening to everything in a much larger room than you're used to. I've got some brand new earplugs for you and me in case Craig gets carried away with the volume knobs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted November 27, 2003 Share Posted November 27, 2003 Well, I guess we'll all be wearing earplugs -- you and me when Craig gets a hold of the volume control, and you and Craig when I put on the Korn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted November 27, 2003 Share Posted November 27, 2003 "I DO wonder how much of this "naturalness" is related to SET, and how much to DHT -- regardless of topology." I don't understand. A Single-Ended Triode is one Triode output tube in a amplifier. A Directly Heated Triode, is just that. If the Triode has no cathode, and just a filament, then the filament is directly heated. With a cathode it's indirectly heated. I'm sure you know these things, but I can't make any sense from the comment above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted November 27, 2003 Share Posted November 27, 2003 Because you can have DHT in a push-pull topology too. What I meant was how much of this "naturalness" should be attributed to the circuit, and how much to the tube type? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3dzapper Posted November 27, 2003 Share Posted November 27, 2003 You can also get DHT triodes in a parallel pair. Still has SET sound with 16W in a 300b amp. Of course tube matching is critical in this application which drives up the cost of ownership. I think a vintage Scott and a SET amp to use as mood and music selection demand is the best course if it is within ones budget. Driven from the same pre and with banana plugs switching between amps is a snap. Just one amp? I agree with DeanG and Paul,clean PP is the way to go. Rick Oh, by the way SunnySal, are you calling me an idiot. Just wait 'til the next time I'm in El Salvadore. You and me have got isues!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted November 27, 2003 Share Posted November 27, 2003 Wouldn't Tony's be a cool place to hang for a couple of days? I wouldn't mind heading over to Kelly's as well -- as long as I don't have to watch him surf. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted November 27, 2003 Share Posted November 27, 2003 I don't get Kelly's first sentence There is no arguing the Brook 2A3 IS NOT a push pull amp So is it Push Pull 2A3 or not ? I think 12 watts is a massive power house compared to 3 !! The difference would be astounding. It would mean you could actually play those amps at 1 watt continuos and have adequate headroom for almost any type of music. Still not enough for my rowdy moods but not bad ! Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Painful Reality Posted November 27, 2003 Share Posted November 27, 2003 ---------------- On 11/27/2003 8:37:09 AM mobile homeless wrote: The 2A3 is a great tube whether in PP or single-ended mode. kh ---------------- Yep indeed. While until now my heart as always shifted to a 2A3 in SE mode with shunt feed topology, I have some hope about this next 2A3 PP I'm working on. Here is a mock up of one monoblock. That should keep the living room warm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Painful Reality Posted November 27, 2003 Share Posted November 27, 2003 A somewhat more reasonably sized picture... Well... almost... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted November 27, 2003 Share Posted November 27, 2003 Just a guess, but what do you have there in the middle, OC3? OD3? Looks like it's using tube regulation. Yes? Hurry up and get 'em done, and take even less time to get bored with them -- I'll need something new to buy in the next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Robinson Posted November 27, 2003 Share Posted November 27, 2003 Jeff, as always, a work of art. I have a hard time thinking that anything could sound better than the cobalt-Horus, but I'm still a newbie so I'll reserve judgment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted November 27, 2003 Author Share Posted November 27, 2003 ---------------- On 11/27/2003 10:16:51 PM NOSValves wrote: I don't get Kelly's first sentence There is no arguing the Brook 2A3 IS NOT a push pull amp So is it Push Pull 2A3 or not ? Craig ---------------- Yes, it is PP. The double negatives are troublesome in this case. http://community-2.webtv.net/KerrB/VINTAGETUBEAMPHORN/page3.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Painful Reality Posted November 27, 2003 Share Posted November 27, 2003 Dean, it's indeed an OD3 tube regulator in the pentode/mosfet constent current source circuit that serve as the load for the 6C45-Pi. Phase splitting is done with a center tapped choke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted November 27, 2003 Share Posted November 27, 2003 Jeff, Can you get me some copper top plates for those chassis I bought from you ? Preferably something that can be polished ? I have some beautiful MQ Iron with copper end bells or are they brass ? I changed my mind on the placement of my first proto type and want those chassis for me ! By the way what type of wood is that above and what was the wood on my set ? Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted November 27, 2003 Share Posted November 27, 2003 Jeff, seriously -- I bet those are the bomb. Probably your last amps. Very cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted November 27, 2003 Share Posted November 27, 2003 Jeff, I have heard many rumors that Scott 299C and D Output Iron makes for a great 2A3 or maybe 300B push pull project. Have you ever heard this before ? I have a amp that would make a great doner if this is a good possibilty. I think 2a3 or 300B push pull would be right up my alley ! Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted November 27, 2003 Share Posted November 27, 2003 Is there a schematic available for the Brook 12a PP Monoblocks anywhere ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted November 27, 2003 Author Share Posted November 27, 2003 Triode Electronics Online is supposed to have that schematic, but the page isn't working. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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