prix Posted November 29, 2003 Share Posted November 29, 2003 I am currently using a Fisher X-202-B tube amp with a pair of Tannoy Monitor Gold 12" speakers. I also have a Scott LK 48, a 299B, and a 222 that are in the process of being restored. As much as I love my Tannoys, I can't stop being curious about Klipsch speakers, specifically the Heresy and the Cornwall. I have never had the opportunity to listen to a pair of vintage Klipsch with a tube amp, but a friend of mine has Khorns with a solid state McIntosh. My impression of Klipsch speakers from this experience is that they are slightly forward sounding, a tad fatiguing, with a total lack of soundstage and imaging, with boomy bass. There is, however, an immediacy and weight to the sound that I cannot forget. Basically, I am wondering what is so special about these speakers. Do the models I mention image and soundstage if set up properly? Can anyone comment on the sound of vintage Klipsch vs. Tannoy? Are there any folks in Northern California who would care to let me hear their Cornwalls or Heresy? One other thing for all the vintage Klipsch experts here.....another friend of mine has offered me an "old pair of big Klipsch speakers with wood lattice grills". I have doubts that these are actually Klipsch because I have never seen a pair of Klipsch speakers with wood grills. Are there any such models? Any commentary and advice would be appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mafuta Posted November 29, 2003 Share Posted November 29, 2003 I once ran Monitor Golds with Audio Research Electronics.No matter what I did they always had the Tannoy midrange coloration.They would also go loud with the ARC D160 and D90 I had but never with real weight to the sound.After 4 years I sold them without shedding any tears. The day I installed my Khorns I really wanted to cry-They were bright with a quack that really made the Tannoys sound like stats and no soundstage. However over several years they have really responded well to small changes(totally unlike the Tannoys).all the initial problems have totaly dissapeared.Strange but most of these changes has been to the room and other components.They really are like a magnifying glass on the rest of the system. Unlike others on this forum I found wiring to and inside the Khorns to be critical and eventually settled on Yamamura Millenium 5000 for internal wiring and Synergistic Research Resolution Reference for outside Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prix Posted November 29, 2003 Author Share Posted November 29, 2003 ---------------- On 11/29/2003 4:31:49 AM mafuta wrote: I once ran Monitor Golds with Audio Research Electronics.No matter what I did they always had the Tannoy midrange coloration.They would also go loud with the ARC D160 and D90 I had but never with real weight to the sound.After 4 years I sold them without shedding any tears. The day I installed my Khorns I really wanted to cry-They were bright with a quack that really made the Tannoys sound like stats and no soundstage. However over several years they have really responded well to small changes(totally unlike the Tannoys).all the initial problems have totaly dissapeared.Strange but most of these changes has been to the room and other components.They really are like a magnifying glass on the rest of the system. Unlike others on this forum I found wiring to and inside the Khorns to be critical and eventually settled on Yamamura Millenium 5000 for internal wiring and Synergistic Research Resolution Reference for outside ---------------- Did the soundstage improve?? IMO, a speaker that will not soundstage and image well is worthless for any critical listening application. Which Tannoys did you have? 10"? 12"? 15"? I am surprised to hear that you found the midrange to be colored. My Tannoys seem to have an incredibly flat and smooth midrange, without the upper mid boost that you are no doubt experiencing with your Khorns. In any case, thank you for your reply. I appreciate your comments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Landau Posted November 29, 2003 Share Posted November 29, 2003 Hello & Welcome, I have heared the Tannoy dual concentric loudspeakers on several occasions and also found them to be colored but very easy on the ears (forgiving?). I think that the soundstage depth and imaging is affected more from the components synergy and placement of the speakers, than from the speakers themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prix Posted November 29, 2003 Author Share Posted November 29, 2003 ---------------- On 11/29/2003 5:36:00 AM Guy Landau wrote: Hello & Welcome, I have heared the Tannoy dual concentric loudspeakers on several occasions and also found them to be colored but very easy on the ears (forgiving?). I think that the soundstage depth and imaging is affected more from the components synergy and placement of the speakers, than from the speakers themselves. ---------------- So how would you describe the sound of the Tannoys you heard compared to your Altec 604 Big Red monitors? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Landau Posted November 29, 2003 Share Posted November 29, 2003 Sweeter but less precise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted November 29, 2003 Share Posted November 29, 2003 I find all the Tannoy speakers that I've auditioned to have a "dry" high-midrange. It's wierd though because it's not very fatiguing at all; it's just different. I find klipsch to be on the bright side, but it's not that fatiguing either. Again, just a different sound. But when comparing the two, I find klipsch has a bigger sound...the soundstage is just huge and the placement isn't as sensitive (which means the sweet spot is larger). Y'all are prob getting bored of my "big sound" and all that, but it's what I crave delicate and big is the way to go and i find that with klipsch...for me, the tannoy comes close and those that don't like bright would enjoy tannoy more. however, my comparisons aren't equal as they were totally different rooms and settings and source material and components...however, I did like the sound of the concentric thing the tannoys had going. for what it's worth, i would choose tannoy over klipsch in the studio. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Songer Posted November 29, 2003 Share Posted November 29, 2003 I own and listen to Cornwalls and Tannoy Monitor Gold 12" on a daily basis. The Cornwalls are driven by McIntosh MC-30 monoblocks and a C-22 preamp--the sources are my Thorens TD-124/SME 3012/Ortofon SPU, a MR-71 tuner and a B.A.T. VK-D5 CD player. The Tannoys are driven by a Fisher SA-100 amp with a 100-T preamp/tuner unit (usually seen in consoles--a really great little preamp and tuner). The other source is an AH! CD player (moidfied Marantz cheap-o unit that sounds pretty darn good). The Tannoys are GREAT for playing LOUD rock, rap, blues, etc. They might be the best speakers I have ever owned for this type of music. Unfortunately, I almost NEVER listen to this stuff! 98% of the time I listen to small-combo acoustic jazz and the Tannoys sound pretty lifeless when compared with the Cornwalls in the arena. The Conrwalls are so much more DYNAMIC and CRISP that the Tannoys. But when you crank up the volume on poorly recorded, compressed rock music, the Cornwalls are PAINFUL--perhaps because they show how BAD most of this stuff is? The Tannoys, however come into their own--the louder and nastier the music the better they sound. I'm in Los Angeles--if you even want to arrange for a listen when you're here, just drop me a line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mafuta Posted November 29, 2003 Share Posted November 29, 2003 I wanted to respond,but the other respondends said exactely what I wanted to-drat!But I'm gonna say something anyway! Bottom line ;the Tannoys are very good at pinpointing but the Khorns will paint a huge soundstage with 3d images in that space-firmly rooted. This may have something to do with them being corner horns-the room become part of the horn with the listener sitting "inside the box".I have never heard the all horn Tannoys(Westminster) but they may well create the same effect. Khorn Cary 805 Valve Audio Genesis pre BAT VK P5 phono Michell Orbe/SME V/Koetsu Onix EMT 948/Cardas Heart ARC CD 1 ReVox PR99 Siltech(i/c)Synergistic Research (speaker) Ensemble (power) cables Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshnich Posted November 29, 2003 Share Posted November 29, 2003 I think that as usual Alan hit the nail on the head. I do not have Tannoys but I have heard them and like them very very much - but the klipsch are much more forward and live sounding particularly with accoustic music - piano, horns, guitar, violin etc. I have a pair of vintage alnico Warfedale W - 70s which I consider poor mans tannoys, and a couple of pairs of cornwalls and would make the same comparison. I live in the SF Bay area and would be happy to have you take a listen. In addition to the system below i have a NOS Valves 299 and a Fisher 400 if you would like to compare with a vitage tube soud. josh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted November 29, 2003 Share Posted November 29, 2003 I have a collection of jazz very much like Allan's as well as a huge collection of rock (from indie to 60s to electronica), some very noisy, some with more dynamic contrasts, some recorded very well (simple with little processing), some with much more. In general, I also agree with Allan in that the BEST music combo I have heard on the Cornwalls is jazz and Vinyl. This with single-ended and PP amps. The Cornwalls seem to really come into their own with good vinyl 50s-60s jazz and tubes. On the other hand, depending on the setup, rock CAN SOUND GOOD but the recording type and where the material lies in the spectrum does have importance. On supremely bright rock that is too compressed with a tipped up top end (a lot of heavy studio processed stuff lives here), the Cornwalls can sound REALLY unrelenting, especially if you seek live levels. My guess is that Klipsch Heritage in general has some of this aspect. Poorly recorded rock is SH!T on Heritage Klipsch from what I have found. But the most simply recorded rock can sound VERY good, even stuff that involves some serious racket. I have not heard the Tannoys in question however. What is really evident is the Cornwalls are not forgiving speakers. I would imagine the Tannoy's to be FAR more forgiving, but perhaps not as rewarding with quality recordings. I would love to hear either Allan or Josh's systems when out there next time. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael hurd Posted November 29, 2003 Share Posted November 29, 2003 Mobile: I have to agree with you on the fact that klipsch speakers are like a computer ... garbage in = garbage out. Some speakers tend to make bad recordings sound ok, and good recordings so-so. However, this is not the case with klipsch. Bad recordings sound terrible, and good recordings are superlative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Robinson Posted November 29, 2003 Share Posted November 29, 2003 ---------------- On 11/29/2003 4:01:06 AM prix wrote: "... but a friend of mine has Khorns with a solid state McIntosh. My impression of Klipsch speakers from this experience is that they are slightly forward sounding, a tad fatiguing, with a total lack of soundstage and imaging, with boomy bass. There is, however, an immediacy and weight to the sound that I cannot forget. ---------------- Klipschorns are the most revealing of the wonderful Heritage family. If there's any issue in the source to speaker chain, you'll know right away. I suspect the first issue to address here is the SS amplification. The SS amps tend to have a lot of distortion at the lower power levels, so there may be something up there. This is why a lot of us start at 100 WPC SS amps and wind up with 3-15W tube amps (PP or SET). Since the K'horns are so efficient, we're spending more time looking for a good sonic match on the first few watts. The sound that comes from Klipschorns is LARGE, somewhat non-directional. They turn a room into a sonic wonderland. Those who hear them with good recorded material and good source/amplification ... well, they never forget it. I had four guys in my living room last night who commented on my Bose cubes last night upon arriving, and left shaking their heads feeling that their audio assumptions were turned upside down. They won't forget what they heard and felt. And honestly, my room is bad. In a better room, a lot more potential resides. I really treasure the ALK's for the Klipschorn just because it gives you so many voicing options. Depending on your room, the midrange CAN be forward and reflective, and Al's work of art let's you dial it back just a tad, and that makes a lot of difference for some folks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prix Posted November 29, 2003 Author Share Posted November 29, 2003 ---------------- On 11/29/2003 8:12:49 PM Chris Robinson wrote: ---------------- On 11/29/2003 4:01:06 AM prix wrote: "... but a friend of mine has Khorns with a solid state McIntosh. My impression of Klipsch speakers from this experience is that they are slightly forward sounding, a tad fatiguing, with a total lack of soundstage and imaging, with boomy bass. There is, however, an immediacy and weight to the sound that I cannot forget. ---------------- Klipschorns are the most revealing of the wonderful Heritage family. If there's any issue in the source to speaker chain, you'll know right away. I suspect the first issue to address here is the SS amplification. The SS amps tend to have a lot of distortion at the lower power levels, so there may be something up there. This is why a lot of us start at 100 WPC SS amps and wind up with 3-15W tube amps (PP or SET). Since the K'horns are so efficient, we're spending more time looking for a good sonic match on the first few watts. The sound that comes from Klipschorns is LARGE, somewhat non-directional. They turn a room into a sonic wonderland. Those who hear them with good recorded material and good source/amplification ... well, they never forget it. I had four guys in my living room last night who commented on my Bose cubes last night upon arriving, and left shaking their heads feeling that their audio assumptions were turned upside down. They won't forget what they heard and felt. And honestly, my room is bad. In a better room, a lot more potential resides. I really treasure the ALK's for the Klipschorn just because it gives you so many voicing options. Depending on your room, the midrange CAN be forward and reflective, and Al's work of art let's you dial it back just a tad, and that makes a lot of difference for some folks. ---------------- While it is true that I will never forget the sound of Klipsch Khorns(the first time I ever heard a cd was on these...Beatles "Revolver"), they strike me as being a better choice for a large club than a critical listening room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minn_male42 Posted November 29, 2003 Share Posted November 29, 2003 "While it is true that I will never forget the sound of Klipsch Khorns(the first time I ever heard a cd was on these...Beatles "Revolver"), they strike me as being a better choice for a large club than a critical listening room." no offense.... but you have no clue about what khorns sound like in a good setup.... i have heard your tannoys and khorns..(both in very good systems).. and the khorns are a much better speaker in all aspects.... detail..dynamics... accuracy.... get a clue newbie.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prix Posted November 29, 2003 Author Share Posted November 29, 2003 ---------------- On 11/29/2003 9:59:44 PM minn_male42 wrote: "While it is true that I will never forget the sound of Klipsch Khorns(the first time I ever heard a cd was on these...Beatles "Revolver"), they strike me as being a better choice for a large club than a critical listening room." no offense.... but you have no clue about what khorns sound like in a good setup.... i have heard your tannoys and khorns..(both in very good systems).. and the khorns are a much better speaker in all aspects.... detail..dynamics... accuracy.... get a clue newbie.... ---------------- Get a clue newbie? Why should I trust your ears, moron? If your avatar is your photo, you look like a real schmuck. Go insult someone else who cares what you have to say, baldy. I'm more interested in intelligent discussion about vintage speakers than your blind assertions and stupid commentary. Obviously you are the clueless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prix Posted November 29, 2003 Author Share Posted November 29, 2003 ---------------- On 11/29/2003 9:59:44 PM minn_male42 wrote: "While it is true that I will never forget the sound of Klipsch Khorns(the first time I ever heard a cd was on these...Beatles "Revolver"), they strike me as being a better choice for a large club than a critical listening room." no offense.... but you have no clue about what khorns sound like in a good setup.... i have heard your tannoys and khorns..(both in very good systems).. and the khorns are a much better speaker in all aspects.... detail..dynamics... accuracy.... get a clue newbie.... ---------------- Nevermind. Sorry for my earlier comment. I just looked at your gear list and you obviously have no idea what a "good setup" is. You must be deaf as a post. Your system is a joke. If I'd seen this initially, I would have realized that you simply don't know what you are talking about. No offense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minn_male42 Posted November 29, 2003 Share Posted November 29, 2003 "deaf as a post" really... you have absolutely no idea about me.... i have probably forgotten more about music than you have ever imagined... i am a semi-professional musician of over 25 years...i am a former music educator of over 15 years.... i know how real music sounds..... on stage....in front of the stage and at the back of the auditorium..... from many years of being exposed to live music.... i have heard your tannoy speakers .... have you heard mine?..... you come on this forum looking for advice and slam the khorn...perhaps the only speaker in continuous production for over 50 years .... i've done the whole tube thing and arrived at a solution which meets my needs and sounds excellent to my "deaf as a post" ears.... the carver professional amplifiers have had a great deal of "internet buzz" as well as producing a great sound with extremely low noise floor..... for well under a $1000.... go ahead and slam my system.... (at least i have klipsch speakers and this is a klipsch forum)..... you are just proclaiming your ignorance..... by the way.... i amazed that you are using such a mediocre cartridge as the shure v15..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prix Posted November 30, 2003 Author Share Posted November 30, 2003 ---------------- On 11/29/2003 10:45:56 PM minn_male42 wrote: "deaf as a post" really... you have absolutely no idea about me.... i have probably forgotten more about music than you have ever imagined... i am a semi-professional musician of over 25 years...i am a former music educator of over 15 years.... i know how real music sounds..... on stage....in front of the stage and at the back of the auditorium..... from many years of being exposed to live music.... i have heard your tannoy speakers .... have you heard mine?..... you come on this forum looking for advice and slam the khorn...perhaps the only speaker in continuous production for over 50 years .... i've done the whole tube thing and arrived at a solution which meets my needs and sounds excellent to my "deaf as a post" ears.... the carver professional amplifiers have had a great deal of "internet buzz" as well as producing a great sound with extremely low noise floor..... for well under a $1000.... go ahead and slam my system.... (at least i have klipsch speakers and this is a klipsch forum)..... you are just proclaiming your ignorance..... by the way.... i amazed that you are using such a mediocre cartridge as the shure v15..... ---------------- If you re-read my earlier posts, you will see that I never did "slam" the Khorn. I only gave my impressions for the purpose of discussion. Obviously this speaker is not for everybody similar to the way that the VW Bug, though manufactured as long as the Khorn is not every man's dream car. In any case, regarding my cartridge.....that is a topic that I will happily discuss with you. Why is it that you call the Shure V15 mediocre? Please do let me know. I recently sold my Benz Micro MC and had a very hard time choosing a new MM cartridge. I chose the V15VxMR because of it's solid reputation, extremely flat response, superb tracking ability, low distortion, and the fact that it is a great match for a tempermental vintage tonearm such as the one on my Hydraulic Reference. Other things that I considered were those by Goldring and Ortofon. My Shure cartridge is on order at the moment, so it is not too late for me to cancel if you provide some information that illustrates why this is not a good choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted November 30, 2003 Share Posted November 30, 2003 Prix, there is nothing at all wrong with you entering into a dialog concerning the Klipsch speakers. There have been many fine debates here concerning the various Heritage horns revolving around each of the positive and negative aspects. In fact, I think you got some thoughtful answers and opinions on the subject as well as some offers for audition. I have to admit, some of the text in your posts does read a bit on the troll happy side of the equation. IF you really are after an exchange in ideas, I would avoid statements like "the Khorn is better served in a club and not a critical listening room" or "you enjoy your midrange boost with your Khorns" or "any speakers that doesnt stage and image well is worthless." Such overstatements tend to rarely bring anything but overstatement in response, this as evidenced by MinnMale, who went WAAY over the top in my view, taking the bait like a Florida Bonefish. One thing for sure about the Heritage speakers, they dont do well with poor front end or amplification. So-so amplification will bring the Heritage to mediocrity or worse depending. Although you do have quite a few that are seemingly unaffected by this. Personally speaking, McIntosh solid state amps on a Klipschorn would bring some of what you decribe, especially if the source components or source MATERIAL was mediocre. I am not a big fan os McIntosh solid state anyway and when partnered with 104dB horns and a so-so source, I would probably not find much to applaud. Since I havent heard the Khorn in years, I limit the response to the Cornwalls. I think you got some very good answers above that describe the differences. Allan actually HAS both speakers and offered a comparison. If you do love imaging and soundstaging, I can tell you the Cornwall does VERY well here but one must obviously concentrate on speaker placement also having a room that doesnt mind two huge boxes encroaching into the living space. Most Klipsch users tend to use the corners which doesnt lend itself to excellent depth in soundstage. But I can tell you that bringing the Cornwalls out a bit will greatly improve this. And even when as little as a foot out, you can get excellent imaging. In fact, the Cornwalls do VERY well here considering. They also exhibit GREAT tone, speed, and a realism that is spooky. But again, the important point to get them at their best is GREAT GEAR UP FRONT. I have found them excellent with quality SET and Push pull. Still, I would not write off the Klipschorn as hastily as you do. IF someone with some fine gear out there has a pair in optimum conditions, I would surely give it another audition. On the V15, I think it's a very decent cartridge and well behaved. Whether it has enough soul, life, and richness might be another story. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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