Latin Jazz recomendation

[Clipped and Shorn]

OK, I will try this once. Let me know how you liked it, maybe I will do it again.

Our buddy out here on the left coast has produced an admirable piece of work, his best yet, in fact it was just nominated for a grammy.

"Isla"

Mark Levine & The Latin Tinge

easy enough to obtain

This CD sounds beautiful on either of my systems. So if you like piano wisdom, jazz, and percussion that will make your system sparkle, check it out. I keep playing it, that must mean something!

Sorry, but its 2003, not 1953....but give it a shot and let me know how you like it.

C&S

[jbsl]

I'm buying some new speakers so I will give this cd a try. Thanks for the info!

[fini]

Your recs have always been right-on. I'll give it a go!

I just ordered it (two copies, one's a gift). Thanks for the link, too. Cheaper than Amazon (price includes shipping) AND more money goes to the artist. C&S, do you have his jazz theory books? Ever seen him live? Man, he gets great reviews...

BTW, your new avatar is HOT!

[mobile homeless]

MARK LEVINE AND THE LATIN TINGE: "ISLA"

Mark Levine - Piano

Peter Barshay - Bass

Paul van Wageningen - Drums

Harvey Wainapel - Soprano Sax, Clarinet

Sheila Smith - Voice

Here are three RealAudio samples:

Play - Black

Play - Ain't Nothing But The Blues

Play - ISLA

I know ole C&S is going to frown but the hardest thing for me to overcome in Jazz is the distaste for latin rhythms and influenced jazz and the use of the B3 organ. I am working on it big time, C&S! Been a drummer all my life but have never liked latin based music. Never liked but the most BARE BONES primitive regae as well. I am only now breaking out of this funk and I wouldnt mind a top three most authentic, least produced, sampling of latin based music and/or jazz from you. I'll give it a go with a purchase.

As for the B3, this was Allan's goal..heh. I LOVE the B3 in mid-60s rock, along with bands like the Lyres and Pandoras. But if someone like Basie pulls it out, I groan. At least ole Baby Face Willette has more taste than most. Another stumbling block!

Shoot me the best latin based stuff - I'll give it a go again.

kh

[Tom Mobley]

ordered, should be interesting.

Tom

[Clipped and Shorn]

roughly you get latin rhythms in:

1. latin jazz

2. Cuban music and salsa dance music

3. Afro Cuban folkloric music

#1 is perhaps easiest if you already like jazz. Cal Tjader for starts, maybe some Tito Puente, then newer releases like "Isla" above. most accessible category. not spicy enough for some who prefer salsa.

#2 very appealing to people who like the dance aspect, very sensual, wonderful music when you understand the idiom. Too vast a category to recommend cold.

"Buena Vista Social Club" popularized the Cuban vintage form of this general category

#3 the most difficult for an outsider to grasp. very complex and ancient traditions of polyrhthms, African based. May require some serious study to develop a comprehension. A life time pursuit. Recommend "Rumba Pa'l Pueblo" good CD compilation for starters.

Like modern art, some people do not get complex polyrhythmic music without first addressing some of the intellectual issues involved. Some are just not meant to get it and as a result do not acquire an appreciation.

latin rhythms are more complex than jazz rhythms. this is why only recently have there been jazz drummers who have gone into it, this because of more recent instructional opportunities and, of course, the growing market demand.

Arguably in some sense latin rhythms can even be more complex than the rhythms in Indian music.

C&S

[Klipschfoot]

here is an "unknown" group that I have enjoyed.

[synthfreek]

I'd recommend Willie Bobo for beginners. Soul/Latin-Jazz hybrid heavy on the congos. His tracks Spanish Grease and Fried Neckbones And Some Home-Fries are classic.

[Clipped and Shorn]

Congos are Congolese people. The drum is a conga drum, congas. In Cuba they are tumbadora(s). Hippies think they are "cungas". Thought I would mention this in case you are somewhere where you have to be hip, the info will help.

C&S

fini, yes I have studied Mark Levine's theory books and yes I have seen him live. He has been around the bay area for some time. He was the pianist with Cal Tjader after Clare Fisher and Mark has written some classic latin jazz standards.

Alex Acuña

[mobile homeless]

You see, it's not the complexity I am having trouble with. At all. It's been what strikes me as a more "dance" based rhythms. I love complexity and dissonance as well. I love free jazz and time signatures that are off. I like mininalist and raw recordings. I live AFRICAN based rhythms a lot including polyrhythmic and extremely aunthentic/primative of which there arent that many good recordings. When I was in Africa in the 80s, I got to hear several performances but could not find good recordings that were not more "popular" based.

Complexity is not my problem nor is the aspect of less popular based. As a matter of fact, I am coming from the OPPOSITE end in that I find most latin based recordings to be TOO SLICK and too groove based, by groove I mean a dance groove, more complex but not as much angst and sorrow based. Latin music seems more upbeat. Although I do tend to like some of hte original CUBAN stuff much more than others. This Afro/cuban/folklore is more my alley.

If I could find some latin based material that exhibited less of these traits, I would go for it. I like complexity but have rebelled against any kind of salsa influence. I dont know if this gives you more of my position on the matter.

I have heard and seen the "Buena Vista Social Club" and enjoyed it. I would actually probably like the most esoteric stuff you have on hand, not stuff to ween the beginners as I generally dont like this stage in almost any genre whether it be jazz, rock, indie, blues, etc I also have a distaste for "slick" recordings or recordigns where the musicians are playing something and imitating what they presume it should be or is and not actually making music. Sadly, this is an affliction of most musicians and easy to fall into.

I'll look into some of your recs now. Perhaps this post will inspire some more as well.

kh

[Clipped and Shorn]

Kelly,

Ok, that helps narrow it down. (although ultimately there is always dance of some kind involved in almost all African based music)

Since you already know you like this type of authentic African music, how about a list of recordings that you already have in this category?

Speaking of the Afro Cuban traditions:

The most hard core is actually a kind of religious music with Bata Drums and singing. This is partly the Yoruba music which is associated with Santeria. You might want to wait on this genre. It is an acquired taste, but very deep stuff.

Another more hardcore, although secular, music is generally grouped into the category of "rumba", that is the authentic Cuban variety. This is complex drumming with some vocal element, definitely not slick, more toward the folkloric. Some forms associated with this general category are "yambu", "guaguanco", "columbia", "abakwa", "bembe" etc.

Find a NM copy of late 50s Tito Puente "Top Percussion" on RCA, I myself prefer the mono, but the stereo is fine. I do not recommend the CD however. Many LPs were made, this collecting is very eBay-do-able. I used to find this LP in thrift stores. CD is last resort.

This LP begins the genre of spectacular hard core percussion. At this very moment I am listening to a recent CD in this category: Alex Acuña "Top Percussion" (Rhythms for a new Millennium). sounds pretty hot...I just got it. Being a drummer I like the work of these other maestros. Another series of CDs in this genre were called "Deep Rumba", the maestro geniuses getting together stretching out. I also like authentic African ensembles of which there are many.

Another starter might be the late 50s Fantasy LP "Yambu" by Mongo Santamaria or another early Mongo Santamaria on Fantasy called "Mongo". Reissues of both of these LPs appear on a single CD which is not to bad called "Afro Roots". Another thing I cut my teeth on was Cal Tjader, the LPs "Ritmo Caliente" and "Mas Ritmo Caliente", sure it is cool to play the old red Fantasy vinyl in mint condition, but the CD reissue (both on one CD called "Los Ritmos Calientes" is a no brainer must have. Collecting the vinyl in not really prohibitively expensive compared to Blue Notes or anything like that. Another nice bit of early latin jazz vinyl would be an original pressing of "Mambo With Tjader", all fun stuff, but with a slightly dated sound.

Then there is the Cuban material:

Any LPs by "Los Muñequitos de Matanzas" or "Los Papines", the original Cuban pressings are rare treasures although there were an abundance of the later issues out of Miami but of less quality. Much of the early material is reissued on CD. I mostly have the Miami reissues on LP. A recent original of their first LP (real Puchito label) sold for over $500 and I am just glad I have what I already have. The original (first) Miami US reissues are really not that bad although more like budget vinyl than high quality.

Later CD recordings by Los Muñequitos should give you an idea of this type of music. Getting deeper into this idiom look for the group "Clave y Guaguanco" also CDs. Also the group "Yoruba Andabo".

An interesting recent reissue of a rare LP is called "The Havana Festival". I have an original Washington label, also a later Riverside. The long awaited recent CD reissue looks like the Riverside cover. This is Cuban folkloric rumba (and comparsa) recorded in Cuba just before the revolution. It is very interesting, contains a legendary trumpet player and singer, but definitely has a dated sound and style. Much of my interest in music, be it latin or jazz is the historical element. I sometimes play rare live Charlie Parker recordings which are 90% noise and distortion just to catch hold of his never ending musical inventiveness. "The Havana Festival" was nicely recorede for mid 1950, one of the first and few good recordings of this type of music. This LP inspired many musicians over the years.

Another CD "Bata Ketu" is an ambitious folkloric production by drummers I know here in the Bay Area, but this is quite an impressive project combining Cuban and Brazillian folkloric sources. Spiro the percussionist on the Mark Levine CD is involved in this project.

Another area that I like is Son from Oriente. Anything by Quarteto Patria (CDs) is a good start with this genre. "The Lion Is Loose" etc. This is that folk music with the guitars and bongo with such greats as Eliades Ochoa seen in The BVSC film.

The bulk of what I listen to are older Cuban LPs which involve a highly specialized kind of collecting which requires knowledge a bit more obscure than collecting vintage jazz. Another fun area for me is mambo era US recordings, many on the old Tico label, again a specialized type of dedicated collecting. There is no competent or systematic reissuing of the Tico catalogue.

I do enjoy the dance groove vintage latin music because there is musicianship and creativity similar to what takes place in jazz. All that slick stuff that turns you off, it turns me off too, and I don't listen to or collect it. If we are talking about the same thing. Give me an example of a "slick" "groove" "salsa" recording you do not like.

Another area is contempory latin jazz. The Mark Levine "Isla" is only the tip of the iceberg. There is a whole movement out there in this genre. Latin jazz is not exactly dance groove music, and you will see that clearly if you get hold of "Isla".

Oh yes.....another great is Cachao, the legendary bassist whose career was revitalized by the actor Andy Garcia. Anything by Cachao is good, be it his historical "Descargas" or his more recent offerings. Truly one of the giants who is still among us.

The ultimate legendary giant/ pioneer of Cuban son music was Arsenio Rodriguez. He is the obsession of many collectors, not least, the actor Matt Dillon, who I have traded with on occasion. This is mostly historical and might be an acquired taste until one has developed a sense of the history of son based music.

My all time favorite Cuban son conjunto was when the trumpeter Felix Chappottin took over Arsenio's group when the latter moved to the US.

The best of both these last two artists are in original pressings sometimes the only way to hear certain material. There are CD reissues but I am not really up on which ones sound any good. Although I do have a rather extensive collection of CD titles on the Tumbao label, mostly historical rare Cuban, much of it reissued from insanely rare 78s. I have a feeling that this son form might not be your cup of tea right off. This is the roots of salsa.

It is only the latest developments in salsa which are the slick "romantico" pop that lack the kind of musical merit I am interested in.

The greatest sonero (singer) of real Cuban music was Beny More. Much of his material is available on competently done RCA reissues. I particularly like when he recorded with Perez Prado in Mexico. Beny More was and still is a Cuban legend, many people's all time favorite voice.

Obviously I could go on and on and on....I would be at least a two semester course.

Almost anything by Eddie Palmieri would be salsa/latin jazz that I would most definitely approve of.

Tito Puente made mostly great recordings throughout his long career . Tico. RCA. Fania. Concord Jazz.

There are countless others actually.

C&S

[ChrisK]

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On 12/6/2003 9:20:25 PM Klipschfoot wrote:

here is an "unknown" group that I have enjoyed.

----------------

I saw Alex Acuna accompany Bobby Rodriguez at the Jazz Bakery a couple of months ago. Great show, but the real surprise that night was a very good young piano player by the name of Linda Martinez.

For me, Latin music is like ice hockey. They're both far better live. Give me a Chile Relleno with Tapatío, hand made tortillas and a cold bottle of Bohemia at Cielito Lindo just before Reina de Los Angeles comes onstage. That's living.

IMHO Latin music is not for the sit in the sweetspot, critical listening, PP vs SET, NOS tubes, power conditioner, cables up on blocks crowd. I think it really helps to be there. In fact I believe we all would benefit by going to hear more live music.

Regards,

Chris

[mobile homeless]

I want to seriously thank you for the time and effort it took to post this. I know what it does take and wanted you to know I appreciate it.

I copied the entire post in a doc and will explore the possibilities. I decided that this was one area where I had almost nothing I wanted.

Looking some of it up now.

kh

[Clipped and Shorn]

Last night I gave a listen to the CD reissue of George Russell's "Ezzthetics". Played it through the Cornwalls with Eico-81 and Rega. Not bad, I enjoyed it. Seems like the 90s reissue of this 60s material had some remastering with a bit of some kind of processing, still not bad, but the LP is without that slightly artificial sense of space which is induced through electronics. I would still recommend the CD if you cannot find a good copy of the LP, if nothing else for the amazing work of Eric Dolphy, especially the showcase "Round Midnight".

BTW, I discovered latin music much the same way I discovered jazz, and that was the advent of HIGH FIDELITY. That and AM radio, later FM. Part of the attraction was my inevitable destiny to be a percussionist, however, the odd thing is that over the years I, like many other musicians and fans I know from "outside" those cultures, developed a taste for music which had vocal elements in a language I do not understand or speak.

Sure I have picked up a few words here and there over the years, but basically all that vocal, be it Spanish, Portuguese, or the various African dialects, is just so many abstract sounds to my ears. The music itself is so engagingly warm and human that this, for some strange reason, is not an issue. The percentage I am missing is not all that great. Once in awhile I will have some song translated and realize, no big deal really. In any case, one needs to embrace this unmistaken cultural ethnicity in much of this music, but I find this fun even if I do not get some of the linguistic aspects. This cultural open mindedness, this whole intellectual tradition, was at the heart of many early audio pioneers who went around the world with their tape recorders and wrote books about it.

The US, among other things, has had a long standing fascination, obsession even, for these latin rhythms and dances. Many jazz geniuses were also attracted to this idiom from the earliest days and it is why even Jelly Roll Morton felt that jazz must have its "Spanish Tinge". New Orleans culture actually extended into the nearby Caribbean and Cuba especially since it has been one of the musical mother lodes for centuries, and for very interesting musicological reasons, more than I can go into at this time.

C&S

[Clipped and Shorn]

Caution: before ordering music I was referring to above, check with me here first.

I notice that the "Deep Rumba" CDs I was referring to earlier are out of print and unavailable now, however there is a newer one

Deep Rumba

this also looks interesting, but I have not heard it.

There are many available CDs by Los Muñequitos, but check beforehand because some are better than others for starter introductions.

Generally, the same artist might have titles which I would not recommend. Some of these artists have been recording for 40+ years, there can be differences in style and sonic quality.

C&S

[Clipped and Shorn]

The Cachao listings at Amazon is a good source. Start with the most popular items in the list.

C&S

[Clipped and Shorn]

Thanks Mark,

I have been into this music for a long time and am fully accepting of the fact that many ears are not attracted to these rhythms for some reasons . Others, including many musicians from all walks, see a kind of aesthetic perfection in the Afro Cuban forms, and that includes the applications to the popular dance music. There is a long history of musical productivity and accomplishments. I don't pay any attention to recent manifestations which may have become too slick or commercial since there is a virtual mountain of other music in this general area which is of high quality. Most music exists in some kind of commercial context, some more compromised than others. Danceability, in itself, is not a reason to dismiss music. It almost makes more sense to dismiss music which has lost its connection to dance, although I do neither.

The magic words for this intriguing musical structure are clave, tumbao, bombo, quinto, ponche, cascara, montuno, campana, etc. These terms refer to aspects of the musical structure as well as the literal parts played by instruments to make the structure. The naive ear may hear the structure but not perceive the relationships which make the structure happen. Both are necessary for real appreciation. This is why I drew the analogy to modern art.

C&S