New construction help!?

[TIbor]

HI

I am finsihing off half of my basement. The other half is laudry, workshop area. As you go downstairs there will be a heavy type masonite door(to seperate the other side). The left side of the stairs will be open halfway(follow the contour of the stairs) down the stairs as you go down. The size of the room is about 30x16. But the HT area will really only be using about half of it. Now my question is I will have a drop ceiling do I want to insualte the ceiling(wood floors in the whole house)? I will also have recessed lights. Where is the the best place for them above tv, by viewing area, or in the middle pointing down or pointing towards the tv or viewing area? I thought about putting speaker jacks in the wall put I decided against it..I think! Mostly I am interested in sounproofing info. I read here someone used 90lb roofing material under the drywall...is that a good idea in a basement..I dont think that moisture can breathe through that.

Thanks

[iXtreme]

I'd like to share what I've just completed as it may help you here. I just finished my basement and it's looking good so far F.Y.I. I would not put any moisture blocking type finishes on the ceilings as they won't do much good there and are simply a waste of money. There are no sound absorbtion qualities in tar (felt) paper or plastic for that matter. That rubber membrane stuff they sell also has little absorbtion qualities. Remember, the fluffier the material the more it will potentially block. I did my ceiling in R20 insulation and it did make some difference in sound transmission especially for the price of the job. You will never block ALL the sound... a more realistic goal is cutting it about in half and thats extreme. The acoustical tiles are pretty good too but don't buy the exotic stuff as it won't stop the sound. The 2 X 2 tiles look better in the basement then the 2 X 3 or 2 X 4 ones I think you'll find. Nothing short of lead walls and ceilings would stop sound so spend carefully and don't expect miracles. Picture this, I have R12 in my basement walls, R20 in basement ceilings and R20 in all upstairs walls and if I play a tune in the basement and can hear it quite well outside so even all that insulation and building material dosen't stop it. As far as lights are concerned there should be plenty of light for the room for regular activities, but for movie watching the lights should be behind the screen (perhaps wall sconces) to avoid any glare on the screen. A soft light behind the screen is actually easier on the eyes then pitch black. My HT room is 24.5 X 14.6 and has 6 pot lights and 2 wall sconces and that works well for all occasions. Remember to also use alot of dimmers for the lights as that will give you more control as opposed to one dimmer for all lights. I have a dimmer on each pair of lights (4 dimmers) so I can set any mood I feel like. It's not very expensive, and trust me you'll appreciate it later. As well, dimmers with light electrical loads on them are less likely to hum while the lights are dimmed, even good quality dimmers do hum a bit. Look to Lutron's Spacer remote controlled series if you want to go real fancy but standard dimmers will do fine too. Don't buy the rotary models as they are prone to premature failure as it's a totally mechanical switch. Remember to wire for the future as well if the location will be hard to get at later. For example, if you have 5.1, then wire for future 7.1 so you have room to grow etc... Run extra phone lines and stuff before you sheetrock the walls. Easier then then later after you are all done. Subwoofer cables are hard to conceal after the fact so think about running them before you sheetrock and leave a foot of the cable hanging from the wall for hookup and that sort of thing. All in all, do what you really want as it's the room you'll have to live with for potentially a long time. Beter to plan ahead and run too much stuff before hand then wish you had later.... there are some things I wish'd I'd done but now it's too late Good luck and happy listening.

[formica]

Ok, I'm not sure I understand which room will be behind the solid core door ? Do you have a floor plan?

I ask this because most sound transmission is through infiltration. If the main level and stairs will be open with the HT/family room in the basement... most of the HT sound will travel up the open stair. This would be you main source of sound transmission and there is little you can do to reduce this other than enclose the space.

Obviously given this, I wouldn't go overboard on the compositions.

- For wall/ceiling you should use fibreglass wool and resilient furring (on the HT side). RESILIENT furring is your friend !!

- Don't use acoustic tile for acoustic insulation as it has little to no benefit for that use.

- In case you ever close the space off, I'd also recommend using a something like a vapour barrier that is taped and sealed around everything including the all protrusions into the gypsum panels. This will help reduce infiltration sound. This could be one of the uses of a self adhesive roofing membrane mentionned, but polyethylene is substantially less expensive and should get the job done.

Your lighting should be concentrated on the seating area. The TV emits it's own light and if you'll be reading something, it'll be where you are sitting. Apart from that, you may want to include some accent lighting for artwork or your equipment... but it should be on an independent controller. Also note that if you insulate the ceiling, you will need to purchase recessed lighting designed for this use as regular pots will overheat and introduce more acoustic infiltration losses.

There are a ton of possibilities... but it depends on what you are trying to achieve.

Rob

[TIbor]

Thanks for the responses.

Regards

I hope to grab a little input from everyone and maybe I will come across a better idea or possibly a new one.

I wanted to enclosure the stairway area and put a door there that opened up into the ht room. But the wife insisted on leaving it the other way as it flowed better. Her point was the other half of the basement is a work laudnry area and she didnt wanted it seem as if you were going through the basement work area to get to another room

Follow?

Thanks

[formica]

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On 12/11/2003 9:54:26 PM TIbor wrote:

I wanted to enclosure the stairway area and put a door there that opened up into the ht room. But the wife insisted on leaving it the other way as it flowed better.

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I can understand... and life is usually about compromises.

Don't get me wrong, as your system will sound good... you just won't be able to isolate the sound from the rest of the house. That is why I wouldn't go overboard on insulation, and perhaps concentrate on the acoustics of the space itself.

I'm still looking forward to getting my system out of the living room... talk about compromises there!

Rob

[picky]

Tibor:

Hi, I know that Artto is probably going to blow me out of the water like he usually does, but let me get a word in edgewise and explain to you what I did and with good results:

I used a very thick, GAF Roofing TP4 Torch APP rubber membrane in my walls to BLOCK, not ABSORB sound from the laundry/furnace room of my basement. It is true that the rubber membranes do not absorb sound. Very dense ones BLOCK it. The idea is to form a seal that the sound cannot penetrate (leak through). Regular roofing felt will do nothing. It is not dense enough. The stuff I used is very thick and very dense (and very heavy). A roll of it weighs 105 pounds. It's available at some Home Depots for $38.00/roll. It is unlike any other roofing product I have seen. I built a wall with a 2x6 top plate and a 2x6 sole plate and placed 2x4 vertical studs staggered on both sides and weaved the membrane in-between all of the studs from one end of the wall to the other and from top-to-bottom, sealing all of the seams. I installed a layer of 1/2" Homasote (sound-deadening board (see Home Depot or Lowe's)) on each side of the wall, 1/2" drywall on the theater side and 5/8" drywall on the furnace-room side. Regardless of what the experts think.....it works on my installation!

I am also installing the membrane along the floor joists in the ceiling and covering it all up with a melamine foam suspended ceiling from Illbruck-Sonex http://www.illbruck-sonex.com/ . Their Harmoni foam tiles are fire proof. They are also available with a sound-block already molded into them (at extra cost) that negates the need for any membrane in the ceiling.

As far as putting the membrane on the exterior walls, I cannot tell you what you should do. Mositure is always an issue in basements and it depends on where you live, how much humidity you have, what sort of soil composition you have, how well it drains, and how good your basement wall integrity is, etc. Here in southeast-lower Michigan, we have clay soil that drains poorly and high humidity. However, I have a cinderblock basement that I've had waterproofed both inside and out, so it is dry. We also use central air conditioning in the house during the summer along with a dehumidifier in the basement. So, our basement stays very dry. I went ahead and applied the membrane to all of the exterior walls too. It's a gamble: some day I may have to rip them down due to a mold problem. Maybe not. But, because of that factor, I will not recommend that you do the same thing that I have done. The results sound awesome, but please use your best judgment. I hope this helps you decide. Best of luck.

-Picky

[FLKlipscher]

Ask Mobile homeless in the 2 Channel. He is very sophistcated and up to snuff on just about anything audio related.

[artto]

The fact of the matter is Kelly doesn't know a damn thing about acoustics, airbourne or structural sound transmission, 3 channel 'stereo', or even Klipschorns for that matter.

[artto]

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On 12/9/2003 12:10:46 AM iXtreme wrote:

Remember, the fluffier the material the more it will potentially block.

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This is a popular misconception. "fluffier" materials do not "block" sound. They provide absorption, to a certain extent, depending on the material, and its density & dimensions.

Only solid materials with high mass can actually block sound. IE: An 8" concrete wall will block sound more than 8" of say, a wall made with 2x8 studs with 1/2" drywall & fiberglass insulation. An 8" wall made of Lead will block more sound than the 8" concrete wall

Also remember that in order to 'block' sound transmission, you need air tight integrity. Even the smallest crack or opening will let sound thru. If you can see light coming thru a joint, sound will get thru too. Caulk is your friend.

[picky]

artto:

I could not agree with you more! I am on my second case of caulk (somewhere around tube number 30) and I have been using it EVERYWHERE! I works! It is very effective at preventing wallboard "buzz" at low frequencies when you take the time to put a bead of caulk on all of the studs (including to the top plates and sole plates) you are mounting your drywall to prior to screwing it down. I made sure there were no breaks in the bead of caulk in order to form a seal, as you were mentioning. I also caulked completely around all electrical outlets and installed seals around the wallplates. I am using a siliconized, latex elastomeric caulk that is never supposed to harden. On the plus side; it's paintable! Arrto, thanks for always being willing to share your expertise with us "weekend warriors".

-Picky

[Champagne taste beer budget]

Picky, do you know the brand and part number of the caulk you're using? Sounds like just what I'll be needing later this year.

[Joe Shmoe]

Just need to add my .02

The only thing I wish I would have done different is change the heating ducts! My house is older and for some reason the installer tapped the downstairs registers into the ducts running to the upstairs. Probably a money saving option for him, but bad for me. At the time I wasn't in the HVAC field and just went ahead and drywalled the celing as is.... BAD MOVE! Now I have an echo chamber from the downstairs directly to the upstairs. NIce eh?

So I would suggest especially in older homes... check to make sure each register is on it's own supply run from the main supply duct or furnace. Other than that I just used R32 or whatever it was to insulate the celing and used 5/8" drywall just for extra sound proofing. I also pre-ran Audio-quest type-4/6 speaker wire through some pvc-tubing in the walls. Then when all is finished used the Niles wall plates with the 5-way binding posts to connect the speakers to. I used a 2" pvc pipe behind the tv wall to run all the Video cables and etc. Hope this helps you.

[Champagne taste beer budget]

Hey Joe, good idea about the PCV for wire runs. Would make any future rerunning of wires a lot easier! Thanks. One caveat, make sure there is sufficiant clearance between any house run electrical wiring to avoid intererance/hum, maybe even run a couple different tubes if there is going to be video/audio wiring to the same location?

[Joe Shmoe]

Yes definitely keep the electrical wiring seperate!

[picky]

Champagne:

Yes. I got the caulk at Home Depot and its made by Dap: Dynaflex 230 (model 18300) White Elastomeric Sealant - about $3.16 a 10.1 oz. tube.

-Picky

[Champagne taste beer budget]

Thanks picky. Made a note in my room building file.

[picky]

Joe Shmoe:

I handled my wiring similar to yours. For video cableing runs to the projector I used 1-1/2" ID ridgid PVC piping. For Speaker cabling (Tributaries 12 gauge) I used that flexible, blue 3/4" ID "Smurf tube" from Home Depot.

For my cold air return and my heat ducting, I made sure to put at least 2, 90-degree bends in the duct, which really seems to have helped to cut the sound bleed-over to the floor above our basement theater. I didn't have the option of tapping into the plenum chamber. Things are just too tight so, the bends are my compromise.

-Picky