Klipsch RF7 Posted December 12, 2003 Share Posted December 12, 2003 Hi Guys, Im about to pick up a vintage 40's era tube record player and i want to know what the diffrent speeds are on the records? What is the diffrences between 33, 45, 78 rpm and what is the sound quality diffrence. Im going to get a hand cranking Gramaphone player with the big horn on it and it uses 78 rpm records, what will it sound like? Im thinking of picking up a bunch of Bing Crosby 78rpm LP's and also what is some good music from the 1920's? You know how on some movies you hear them playing some real old jazz or a singing on a old record player, it has that hiss and that old sound to it that i just love. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WMcD Posted December 12, 2003 Share Posted December 12, 2003 Gee, Georg. Either you're making fun of us, or you haven't been around for the last century. 33 1/3 RPM = Adagio or Langsam 45 RPM = Moderato or Massig 78 RPM = Allegro or Rasch 78 RPM records were typically made of shellac and had room for one song. 45 RPM records were made of vinyl and had room for one song, and had the bigger center hole. 33 RPM records were made of vinyl and had room for half a CD or so. The 33 1/3 and 45 records used an equalization where the highs were boosted in cutting the groove and then reduced in the playback electronics. This is the RIAA equalization. The theory was that noise resulting from record wear and dust would be reduced on playback while high frequencies were proper. Also, the groove was smaller and a needle different from the 78 was used. The 78 had no equalization and thus could be played with a mechanical pick up and horn. I've read of people building very large horns with good bass response to listen to these. Some people used cactus thorns as needles for playing 78s. A major shortcoming of 78s is that it is awfully difficult to read the label while it's turning. I've recently made a remarkable discovery. There is music recorded on BOTH SIDES of the disk. Far out. Gil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipsch RF7 Posted December 12, 2003 Author Share Posted December 12, 2003 Honestly, I know nothing about record players and records. Im buying a Replica Antique round record player with a big brass horn, it plays 78 rpm LP's and has adjustable speed but no volume adjustment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clipped and Shorn Posted December 12, 2003 Share Posted December 12, 2003 I e s p e c i a l l y l i k e t h o s e 1 6 r p m L P s. C & S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkrop Posted December 12, 2003 Share Posted December 12, 2003 What is the deal with the new, expensive 45 RPM LP format? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynnm Posted December 12, 2003 Share Posted December 12, 2003 Actually there have been 45 RPM LP's. They are the same size as a 33 1/3 RPM Lp and provide about 16 min. per side. I have a Charlie Byrd 45 and it is good enough to make your hair stand on end. Oddly the collector value on that piece is relatively low. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipsch RF7 Posted December 12, 2003 Author Share Posted December 12, 2003 How bout 78 rpm? Im buying alot of the beethoven ones off Ebay right now awaiting my 78 rpm Gramaphon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IB Slammin Posted December 12, 2003 Share Posted December 12, 2003 ---------------- On 12/12/2003 2:39:14 PM Georg Friedrich Handel wrote: Hi Guys, Im about to pick up a vintage 40's era tube record player and i want to know what the diffrent speeds are on the records? What is the diffrences between 33, 45, 78 rpm and what is the sound quality diffrence. Im going to get a hand cranking Gramaphone player with the big horn on it and it uses 78 rpm records, what will it sound like? Im thinking of picking up a bunch of Bing Crosby 78rpm LP's and also what is some good music from the 1920's? You know how on some movies you hear them playing some real old jazz or a singing on a old record player, it has that hiss and that old sound to it that i just love. Thanks ---------------- Would it be the revolutions per minute?....No, thats not me....thats Fini's line.... Just kidding - tc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WMcD Posted December 12, 2003 Share Posted December 12, 2003 I shouldn't have been such a smarty pants. And sometimes wonder whether the obvious can be stated without some mirth. The wind up Victrola type is simple. A stylus rides in the goove. It moves a diaphragm which is pretty much like one in a midrange compression driver. Then the diaphragm drives the exponental horn. There is no volume control because there is nothing to change. Besides, volume is not that great anyway. The Victrola name was the fall out of some sort of patent litigation. Either side of a 78 lasts about four or five minutes. Hence you get only one movement of a symphony. It was necessary to buy a collection of them and they were put in an "album". The term album seemed to survive to even the days when an entire symphony could be put on one side of an LP (long play) 33 rpm record. Even a single disk was called, e.g., the new Beatles album. The most famous of the players were the "His master's voice" which you see on RCA record lables. That looks like a conical horn to me. The more exponential horns were called "Morning Glory" after the flower which it resembles. In the world of bass horn response, size is everything. So some were made into the lower cabinet of a console. An article by Dr. Bruce Edgar in Speakerbuilder has a diagram of one. There was one in the Klipsch museum. I never heard it with a record. However, dragging a finger across the stylus gave a nice growl. It was startling to hear something like that without electronics. The folds of the horn must have killed high frequency response. The recordings didn't have much though. If anything, high frequencies were scratches only. People find a lot of good sounds down in the guts of the 78s. Mallet will tell you. BTW, Dave M., did you get that 45 rpm 12 inch disk from me in the mail? Samuel Johnson, speaking on another subject, said, "Like a dog walking on two legs, it is not surprizing that it is done badly, it is surprizing that it is done at all." (He was speaking of a woman preaching the gospel!) The mechanical reproducers are like that (our canine friend) by modern standards, or the ampified type of the last century. I've been tempted to find an old player myself. Maybe the HT system comes first. Smile. Gil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipsch RF7 Posted December 12, 2003 Author Share Posted December 12, 2003 Thanks for the detailed reply, here is what im buying. Its a replica but it sure looks and does sound nice. http://antiquehardware.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=AHHS&Product_Code=25219+Octagon+Gramophone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WMcD Posted December 12, 2003 Share Posted December 12, 2003 Thanks for not taking me to task on the tone of my posts. There are people out there who are experts. I'm old enough that some of the hardware of the type could be found in relative's basements. As a kid I recall listening to 78s and LP's were the new thing for the post war era. Not something to give a kid to mess with. Like I was saying. If you mentally squint at it, the acoustic side of the set up is a lot like the dimentions a K-400 midrange. It looks like the diaphragm is about 2 inches or maybe 1 1/2 inch. The lenght overall is maybe just over 24 inches which allows the mouth (the big end) to be larger. Therefore, like the K-400 it will only reproduce down to 400 Hz and has a cut off of 280 Hz. Strictly an eyeball appoximation but not too far off. There were bass freaks even in those days who wished to extract every bit of information possible. I have an article about a well heeled Englisman who constructed a horn which took up the room above or probably the high ceiling. Visitors listened laying on couches, facing up. The next step was to devote an adjacent room rather than do the couch thing. A servant ran the machinery in either case. No mention of WAF. Gil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipsch RF7 Posted December 13, 2003 Author Share Posted December 13, 2003 How loud do these play? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Songer Posted December 13, 2003 Share Posted December 13, 2003 WHAT? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WMcD Posted December 13, 2003 Share Posted December 13, 2003 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipsch RF7 Posted December 13, 2003 Author Share Posted December 13, 2003 Guillame, How loud do you expect this player to be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WMcD Posted December 13, 2003 Share Posted December 13, 2003 I've never seen a specification on "how loud" but I haven't hunted. I doubt there were 78 RPM test records and certainly no RS meters in those days. The one I did hear was about half the size of the RCA I posted. I'd say it was certainly not loud enough to drown out a conversation even standing next to it. It would be comfortable in a quiet room and you could certainly talk over it. Gil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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