JBP Posted December 21, 2003 Share Posted December 21, 2003 Has anyone had any experience setting up HT in a large room with high ceilings, concrete floors and very few walls? Any suggestions on what type of speakers or brands of speakers would work best in this type of environment or any online resources where I may find this addressed? Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMcGoo Posted December 21, 2003 Share Posted December 21, 2003 JBP, It looks like you need speakers that can fill a very large space with ease. A high sensitivity horn speaker would be ideal, provided you like the horn sound. Klipsch is the leader in this type of speaker. It would help to know the cubic footage that you need to fill, your listening levels and the type of material that you listen to. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBP Posted December 21, 2003 Author Share Posted December 21, 2003 Thanks for the reply. This is the first time I will be setting up a real HT so any information is appreciated. The actual room itself is very large, 50x75. Within this room I would like to create a listening area roughly 35' deep and 20' wide. It will be used exclusively for movies and played at loud levels. Thanks again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WMcD Posted December 21, 2003 Share Posted December 21, 2003 It seems to me you're talking a very large area by home theater standards. More like a small professional theater. This is more than most of us here have. You're talking well beyond the Reference systems and certainly into the Heritage. Horn loaded speakers, specifically in the treble range can be a help in that they focus sound in some frequency ranges. Therefore they keep it from spraying onto the side walls, ceiling and floor. BTW, what is your budget? If I had to tackle this using home type speakers, I'd start with some LaScalas up front, Heresies for the surround, and some very big subwoofers. K-Horns might be better in front if you can devise some corners. Gil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMcGoo Posted December 21, 2003 Share Posted December 21, 2003 I agree with Gil. Heritage would be ideal, but the Reference 7 series would work as well. However, I would go with tower speakers all around. The RS-7s for surrounds are way too small. I agree that a very serious subwoofer would be required, perhaps two very big subs. It would depend on the location of the sub(s) versus the seating area. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBP Posted December 22, 2003 Author Share Posted December 22, 2003 Thanks for the help. I think that I may have thrown you all off with the room dimensions and my poor choice of words so I will try to clarify. I am converting a building into a residence. The main living area will be 50'x75' and within that area I will have about 20'x35' area for the HT. It does not have to be that big, that is just the maximum space available. I am not going to put up any walls to seperate the HT from the rest of the space, it will just be one large room. The floors are concrete and I will not be covering them so I would prefer to drop all of the speakers from the ceiling, which is exposed beams, electrical, ect. I do not think that the weight of the speakers will be a problem, I will just have some sort of brackets and mounts fabricated out of metal which will bolt to the exposed beams and drop the speakers to 5' or 6'. As for budget, a good starting point would be around $10,000 for the speakers and reciever. What are the optimum demisions for laying out a good HT? Would RB-75's all the way around with two masive subs be a possibilty? Would RB-75's for the front and RS-7's for the surrounds work better? Are there any other speakers or combination of speakers I should consider? Any and all opinions and suggestions are greatly appreciated. Thanks again for your help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted December 22, 2003 Share Posted December 22, 2003 any walls in the HT area? front walls? side walls? electrical feed? is it quiet? any dust or noise from other projects innearby areas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBP Posted December 22, 2003 Author Share Posted December 22, 2003 There is a wall behind where the television will be placed and a wall of windows on the right side that runs the length of the building. Electrical is not a problem and can be placed where ever needed. I will occupy the entire building so noise will not be an issuse and I will not be moving in until renovations are done so dust will not be a problem either. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j-malotky Posted December 22, 2003 Share Posted December 22, 2003 JBP You have a great oportunity to build a great HT in a large room like that. Go with the BIG HERITAGE speakers like Khorns and LaScalla. I would build a room inside the space you have available. Re-enforce the corners where you want the Khorns and subs. Email or PM ARTTO here on the BBS to design the best environment and room size. My Heritage HT is in a room 22' wide by 34' deep. The Big Heritage sounds great in larger rooms. JM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WMcD Posted December 22, 2003 Share Posted December 22, 2003 Okay, I get a bit more of the picture. You have a very large space and will be defining a listening / viewing area within it. I envision that your going to have an area with couches, chairs, perhaps defined by a large rug. Gosh, concrete seems too disagreable on the feet and certainly will not help acoustics. I'd rather see a plushy, comfortable nest defined. That is a respectable budget. If you go with the Heritage horns, you could build up a wonderful system with some used stuff. It will take some time and effort to accumulate. On the other hand, with the defined area being reasonable in size, you could get away with new Ref models. In my case, I am slowly building up a collection of Quartets to envelop a listening area which is much smaller that my big (by apartment standards) main room. Gil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBP Posted December 23, 2003 Author Share Posted December 23, 2003 Thanks for the replies. Unfortnately I will not be able to inclose the lisenting - viewing area from the rest of the room. With that being said would the Hertitage line still perform well with the lack of walls? Is it possible to drop them from the ceiling and still maintain good acoustics? This is probably a stupid question but when I tried to obtain info on the LaScalas, Heresies, Khorns, ect.. it seems that they where all built in years past. Does Klipsch still produce these speakers or can they only be obtained used? Are there any reliable sources for used equipment? I do not know that I would be comfortable going that route, not educated enough on the subject. Gil, you mentioned you would like to see a plushy, comfortable nest. This is probably another stupid question but could you elaborate, what you had in mind? Also, if I where to go with the Reference line what would be a reasonablely defined area? Deminsions, speaker placement, ect...? Thanks again for everyone's assistance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j-malotky Posted December 23, 2003 Share Posted December 23, 2003 JBP Klipsch still makes the Heritage line. It is expensive and you will wait for them to be built. I have had very good luck finding used Heritage on Ebay. As for your room, and not being able to enclose - The Big Heritage is still your best bet for two main reasons. First, they make VERY big sound for lack of a better term and will fill your very large room with ease. The second reason is that the big horns sound best when they are pointing right at your listening area so they will sound good at the first pass at your ears, better then Reference line in your situation to give you good imaging. Be prepaired to add sound dampening behind your listening area too. JM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WMcD Posted December 23, 2003 Share Posted December 23, 2003 I was wondering just how workable your envisioned plan is from a human comfort view. It seems to me that any viewing / listening area is going to be defined in a smaller area of something like 20' x 20 feet at best. TV's are only so large, therefore must be close. Everyone has to be able to reach the pop corn bowl on the center table. You need some shelf space for components and tapes, CD's. Then you'll need some lamps and end tables. A phone line, power, internet. So, even if you have a loft, warehouse, or basketball court sized piece of interior real estate, you're forced to cluster things down into something like a smaller living room. Vistors are not going to have to shout across the room. I'd think the area has to be defined by a big carpet with padding, also with a few sofa, davenports, and recliners. Even folding camp chairs would be a start if you're recovering from construction costs. Given this smaller space, the issue of speakers shifts away from movie theater units to just home types which will not be operating with walls nearby. That may have its own problems and advantages. For example, you could go with something like the tall RF series and get five or six to handle right, center, left, and two or three surrounds. "Flying" the speakers would be a pain in comparison. You could move around floorstanders a whole lot easier. Bass will be a problem. Here we're talking about any one sub working in "half space". The floor is the only close boundry. Full space is no boundry and the speaker is in the air. In half space, you're not trying to fill the basement with sound. If you put a speaker against a long wall, it is quarter space. Without the wall and floor you'd be radiating into the ground floor room on the other side of the wall, the basement of your room, and the basement below the next room. But the walls and floor are there, and you're radiating into one quarter of full space. The next in the progression is one-eighth space. This is a corner. You have to visualize an office building or apartment building. The floor/wall corner point is shared by four other spaces on your floor, plus it is the ceiling / wall intersection of four rooms below. So, count 'em, eight. As you might have read, subs or any woofer work best in a corner. So you'll need serious subs and many of them. On the other hand, reflections from walls are bad for mid and treble response. You'll be in good shape on that end because the speakers are well away from walls. It could work out very, very well. K-Horns, LaScalas, and Heresy II are still in production, though not cheap. There are many fine units of many Klipsch varieties on e-Bay from time to time but you'll have to decide on a plan and then take some months of bidding as things come up for sale. Best, Gil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ssh Posted December 24, 2003 Share Posted December 24, 2003 JBP, 5 LaScalas & an RSW 15 will fill your space without concern for the open area you have. I have Kornerhorns up front, with a LaS center, LaS rears, RC7 rear centers & an RSW15. With a Marantz SR9200 receiver & DV 8300 combination player, I am very satisfied with my HT & multi-channel stereo setup. With a 10k budget, you could buy used (most of us have) LaS & have lots of budget left for a 2 channel tube amp to do justice to those LaScalas. SSH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBP Posted December 26, 2003 Author Share Posted December 26, 2003 Gil and everyone, thanks for the help. I am really not concerned about the human comfort aspect. I do not entertain that often and when I do it will not be in this building, I will primarily be the only one using this space. I was planning on having two recliners flanked buy two small sofas on either side. I am only concerned about the recliners being located in the optimum place for sound and viewing. I have a 65" television and will soon be upgrading to a projector so I will not be limited to how far off the wall I can sit. I have decided that I am going to have to go with the Reference 7's because I really do not feel comfortable purchasing used speakers and new Heritage would be too expensive. With that being said I hope I can still get assistance from all the Heritage people out there. How do you determine the number of surrounds to go with, is it just personal preference or do you base it on layout deminsions? If I use RF-7's all the way around would it be appropriate to use a RC-7 for the center? I know you should use the exact same speakers across the front but I don't think that would work in my case. How do you determine speaker placement? Are there certain dimensions that are optimum for the RF-7's? What would be the maximum space the RF-7's could cover? Has anyone ever tried to get RF-7's a foot higher off the ground? If you have high back chairs and sofas it seems the towers would perform better at 4' plus. Could you just have some platforms built for them to sit on, any other ideas? If I place the subs in one corner how many should I plan on having to purchase? Could you make some suggestions on brands or models so I can get an idea of costs? Would it help to have a sub behind the seating area? Any suggestions on receivers to consider? Any opinions on Pioneer Elite models? I would like to avoid using separates unless there are true benefits. Sorry for the number of questions but all your opinions and recomendations have been very helpful. Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yura Posted December 26, 2003 Share Posted December 26, 2003 For subs - i would go with SVS ( http://www.svsubwoofers.com/ ), Sunfire ( http://www.sunfire.com/ ) or Velodyne ( http://www.velodyne.com/). Probably in that order too... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill H. Posted December 26, 2003 Share Posted December 26, 2003 JBP, If I may interject an idea, with your budget, and because you stated you wanted to go with the RF 7's- If you buying from a Dealer - I believe that they would be more than happy to come out to your Loft and give you assistance in setting up and the proper placement of your system..........even if you had to pay them a small fraction , to come out and set things up for you.............. Just an Idea! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBP Posted December 26, 2003 Author Share Posted December 26, 2003 Bill H, That might be an option further down the road. I just like to get as much information prior to purchasing anything of significant value. I also do not like to have to rely on the opinions of people that are putting my money into their pockets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill H. Posted December 26, 2003 Share Posted December 26, 2003 JBP, I went back and re read My post, and can clearly understand where your coming from..............Good Luck with your project, it sounds thrilling to me to envision an entire area free of walls. Clean open space....................... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrench_peddler Posted December 26, 2003 Share Posted December 26, 2003 Do not be afraid of used Heritage.There are guys here that are listening to speakers that are 40 years old that are all original and still sound wonderful. Hang around the list and ask who has what for sale. The guys on the list impress me as "Klipsch Nuts" that wouldn't want/allow a bad speaker to be sold. There are speakers coming up on the list fairly often and with your budget, I could have a ball. The thing is that if you get a Heritage speaker that isn't what you want/like/need, you can probably get your money back fairly easily.(Maybe even make a buck or two) The wisdom of the list can be a wonderful buying/shopping tool. Watch Ebay, spot something, ask for the knowledged opinion of the list and start shopping. From what I have seen, the appearance of the exterior is a good indicator of how the insides have been cared for. I have seen 1960's KHorns that I would rather own than numerous 80's and 90's Horns. Just don't get in too big a hurry. There was a set of 7 Lascala's that were used in a church that was for sale in the midwest. I think they were asking $5000 for the lot. They would look and sound really wonderful in a room like you are describing. Here is the place that had them listed. www.hticsproaudio.com I just checked and they are no longer listed. Sorry. Keep looking and asking. In the mean time, learn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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