khorn58 Posted December 21, 2003 Share Posted December 21, 2003 I have a Thorens TD 125 MK II with a Infinity Black widow arm kicking around. It is in great shape but needs a niddle in the Ortofon lm 20 cart(lost in a move). Is this a good combo worth fixing or should I buy a new cartidge arm set up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Landau Posted December 21, 2003 Share Posted December 21, 2003 It is definitly worth fixing. The arm is very nice but will only work well with MM cartridges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted December 22, 2003 Share Posted December 22, 2003 Guy, Are you intimately familiar with the Black Widow? I have one, and would like to ask some detailed questions, if you don't mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Landau Posted December 22, 2003 Share Posted December 22, 2003 Fini, I'm only familiar with it, since a friend ownes one and uses it on the same TT, as I do. What do you need to know? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted December 22, 2003 Share Posted December 22, 2003 The other day, Clipped&Shorn came over an we finally fired-up my recently tuned Fisher 500c. I plugged-in the Kenwood KD-500/ Black Widow / Shure V15 IV/III, and it sounded terrible. We heard A LOT of what I'd call "acoustic feedback:" the louder the music, the worse it got, and gentle taps on the plinth were loudly amplified. Yes, the table is very close to the Cornwalls, and I will be using mdeneen's stone slab/handball isolation technique (as well as cleaning it! Gawd!!). The dust cover was attached, which didn't help. But there is play in the arm tube-to-arm base pivot. When I push & pull gently on the arm tube, I get, maybe, 1-2mm of play (there is a center detent). I am wondering if this is normal, or if it should be solid/no play. I got this set-up (minus the cartridge) ULTRA cheap (18 bucks, at the thrift store), and as such do not know the history behind this. As you can see in the photograph, the last person to own it used blobs of stickum to tame some problem, possibly the same one I am experiencing. They gave up. Can you ask your friend to check this out on his Black Widow? I have downloaded the installation manual for it from the Vinyl Engine, but unfortunately, it goes into zero detail when it comes to troubleshooting these kinds of problems. Thanks, Guy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Landau Posted December 22, 2003 Share Posted December 22, 2003 Fini, Did you try tightening the 2 philips screws that are near the attouch the arm tube to the pivot? Usually, when the bearings are gone, the sound is more distorted. The acoustic feedback that you were mentioning is probably more related to the turntable isolation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted December 22, 2003 Share Posted December 22, 2003 Guy, The screws are tight. I am hesitant to start messing around with this complicated contraption without a little research. I may in fact be getting some of that distortion, too. I'm not trusting my ears-to-words connection, either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Landau Posted December 22, 2003 Share Posted December 22, 2003 Fini, I'll try to ask my friend about it. Maybe Khorn58 can help here, too. Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clipped and Shorn Posted December 22, 2003 Share Posted December 22, 2003 " I got this set-up (minus the cartridge) ULTRA cheap (18 bucks, at the thrift store), and as such do not know the history behind this." fini, Is it possible this was used as a movie theater seat? C&S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted December 22, 2003 Share Posted December 22, 2003 Thanks, I appreciate that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted December 22, 2003 Share Posted December 22, 2003 Khorn58, I have a TD-125 with a Decca London tonearm on it. How's that for rare? The Black Widow is the only tonearm with a lower moving mass; 4g vs 5g IIRC. if you pick the right cartridge, it should be very good. I'm using an A-T OC-9. I calculated the resonant frequency and it was just about right (7.5 Hz, I believe) in my case. Yours will be a little higher. I like it's sound and it was not too expensive. This is the only A-T I've ever liked, BTW. It is a moving coil, so you'll need a transformer or high gain preamp. With such a low mass arm you will have to pay attention to the cartridge compliance (you want it high). I sure wish I could buy a new Sonus Blue Label. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clipped and Shorn Posted December 22, 2003 Share Posted December 22, 2003 can someone please tell fini whether his Black Widow Infinity tone arm is supposed to jiggle or not? are there really bearings in there that could be worn out? if so is it fixable? C&S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptnBob Posted December 22, 2003 Share Posted December 22, 2003 I had a Black Widow on my Thorens 125 mk II for many years and found it to be a good match. The arm has knife edge bearings like the SMEs and is supposed to have a little play-this "rattle" was often commented on in reviews of the time. I wouldn't tighten anything up as the arm is very fragile. I've seen Ortofon cartridges that look a lot like the one that's supposed to be with the Black Widow. You can probably find something that will work - look for something with low mass and high compliance. I tried using mine with an Ortofon MC-20 for a while - not a happy marriage. On passages with a lot of "oomph" - the Telarc 1812 Overture for instance - the arm would get tossed into the air. I finally took the moving coil off when I noticed the weight was actually making the arm sag. I got the best results with an Ortofon M-15E Super and a Grace F9E. The biggest problem I had with the Widow is that the cartride leads were ridiculously thin. You really had to be gentile or they would break off. And, oh yeah, I accidentally broke the first one I had in half when the lp I was putting on slipped and landed on it. I hope this helps. I'd take that putty off, but that's just me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clipped and Shorn Posted December 22, 2003 Share Posted December 22, 2003 Why do you thlnk the previous owner put that puddy on there? So the "rattle" is normal, maybe the table just needs to be truly "isolated" because I noticed it did not take very much volume in the room for the feedback to happen. I noticed similar feedback on my MM-7 until I got it isolated properly. What about adding a tiny bit more weight ? I think he has it a 1.5 grams now. It is a Shure V15. CbS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Landau Posted December 23, 2003 Share Posted December 23, 2003 Fini, I've emailed my friend and I'm waiting for his reply. Have you tried asking at vinyl asylum? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted December 23, 2003 Share Posted December 23, 2003 Thanks, Guy! No, I haven't asked there, or at the Vinyl Engine, yet. I will do that when I have more time to fiddle with it (after the holidays). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Landau Posted December 23, 2003 Share Posted December 23, 2003 Fini I've just posted your question on Vinyl asylum. Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted December 23, 2003 Share Posted December 23, 2003 Thanks, Guy! I just replied over there... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryC Posted December 23, 2003 Share Posted December 23, 2003 While you're waiting for more "feedback" -- the feedback you're getting on this TT sounds extreme, like something incorrectly rests or rubs on something else, thereby conducting feedback directly to the arm and bypassing whatever isolation is supposed to be there. Sometimes TTs have a shipping screw or whatever to hold things together and keep them from flailing around until it's unpacked. You might see something like that on the bottom of the TT. If the upper chassis is supposed to "float," loosening said screw or whatever allows it to do so and might solve some of the f/b problem. Larry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khorn58 Posted December 24, 2003 Author Share Posted December 24, 2003 It's good to see others have this same arm aand table set up. I guessI will try to find a new needle for the ortofon Lm20 (what does Lm stand for?) If they are still avalible. If I cant find a new needle I'll try a Grado maybe one of the higher end ones any suggestions?. I'm dieing to play my Mobel labs Beatles "the collection" new in the box. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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