leok Posted December 27, 2003 Share Posted December 27, 2003 I finally configured the office system to work with the parafeed SETs (I needed a line pad, of which my favorite local electronics outlet "You Do It Electronics" actually had 2 types: one for $10 and one for $20). Not to be cheap, I took the $20 variety. With that I was also able to put the Sonic Frontiers TransDAC back in service (8x interpolation, 20 bits w/ OPA134 (BB/TI) op amps (biased into class-A): conservative, but more open and extended than the Denon DCD-615 I had in there due to its having a volume control of sorts). For me, it's a match made in heaven. Both the SET and the reworked RF-7s excel in high end clarity. The combination is so transparent and 3 dimensional. My endorsment of the RF-7 (with reworked crossovers) for classical (chamber orchestras and smaller) is absolutely without reservation, especially and paired with SET amplification. With bigger stuff it lacks scale, and there is music for which dynamic properties shouldn't be compromised, but even there, the system continues to be a lot of fun and very revealing .. it just isn't its forte. I moved the pp amp down with the Chorus-IIs. I think the SET had been bringing the best out in the Chorus-IIs and the RF-7s bringing the best out in the pp amp (remember, this for classical chamber music). For big stuff the pp amp is fine with the Chorus-IIs, and anyway, the Chorus-IIs never were perfect for the chamber stuff (but plenty of fun in their own way). I'm trying to figure out how to make the RF-7 crossover rework more accessable so more people can hear what these remarkable speakers can really do. Leo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tubinhard Posted December 27, 2003 Share Posted December 27, 2003 "Scale" was never an issue for me until I heard the Klipschorn, and no -- the RF-7 does not excel in this area. Now, I can achieve a larger scale with them by loading up the room -- but it takes power, and what I believe to be excessive SPL to get the job done. Of course, this is with Rock music, and other types of works just aren't going to sound right at these levels. More properly applied, I believe large scale soundstaging is a combination of sufficient room loading, and more importantly -- a large baffle, with large lenses, producing large propogated wave fronts. The RF-7 just loses out here unless confined to near listening usage, or using sufficent power to reach SPLs capable of loading the room properly. Personally, I think it's a great speaker for Rock Music in small to moderately sized rooms -- but they really need 50 watts or more. We have taken different approaches with implementing the crossover modifications. I prefer getting rid of the PCBs, and getting the crossovers out of the cabinets. I tried a rework recently with the PCBs, and it didn't take me long to figure out it would take monumental changes, involving much time and work -- very cumbersome. You must have the patience of a Saint. I would like to find a nice sized box to use, and I even considered plexiglass -- which would look rather impressive. What I really wish is that we could collaborate on some nice crossovers for the Fortes, Chorus', and anything else where Al has left a gap for us to fill. You seem to enjoy tweeking these circuits, and I certainly enjoy building them. Surely we could come to some kind of agreement regarding the financial aspect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeritageBob Posted December 27, 2003 Share Posted December 27, 2003 Well I would certainly warmly welcome this collaboration. Would be nice to see what you guys can come up with. Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipsch RF7 Posted December 27, 2003 Share Posted December 27, 2003 Hmmm, I knew i shouldve have gotten SET amps. But for $500 wouldnt even come close to getting a good preamp and SET amp combo. Ill try the scott and see how it sounds first and go from there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tubinhard Posted December 27, 2003 Share Posted December 27, 2003 One thing at a time. Remember, your original request was for a tube amp around $500. If you want to do SET correctly, you will also need a preamp -- even a good passive will cost you a little. So, figure between $1200 and $2500 total here. Most here are travelling at the top end of this scale. Be patient. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipsch RF7 Posted December 27, 2003 Share Posted December 27, 2003 So Leo, now that ive got a pair of RF-7's of my own. What do you suggest me doing with the crossovers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted December 27, 2003 Share Posted December 27, 2003 Georg, just listen to them for some time before you go hog-wild on crossover mods, then go from there if you still desire to do so. Have Dean give you a price on Rel-Cap Thetas, you'll understand. Leo, A capacitor checker that forms caps can be used for forming speaker crossover capacitors, right? (I couldn't see why not...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tubinhard Posted December 27, 2003 Share Posted December 27, 2003 I have to agree with Mike -- give it some time. Do you have any soldering skills? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted December 27, 2003 Share Posted December 27, 2003 He's already mentioned taking the RF-7's to a television repair place or something for the crossover mods, in previous threads. (The was before he purchased RF-7's.) Maybe he can solder............ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipsch RF7 Posted December 27, 2003 Share Posted December 27, 2003 Do you have any soldering skills? Unfortunately i donot, i would pay someone some money to do the soldering and do the conditioning. I wondering if Craig can do the conditioning and the soldering of the new Auricaps for me since he has them in stock? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkrop Posted December 27, 2003 Share Posted December 27, 2003 Modifying the xovers would pretty much ruin your plan to return those new speakers to save a few $ in three weeks Georg! EDIT: Sorry! Just read the rest of the B&W vs. Klipsch thread. Mod yourself silly! ( but give the RF's and your ears some break in time) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leok Posted December 27, 2003 Author Share Posted December 27, 2003 Georg, I suggest you try the white/pink noise thing and, other than that, hang on for a few months .. listen to what you have and enjoy it. With the tube amps, you will hear a different dimension. Wait for that and let that settle. Don't worry about the amp question .. including preamps (which many people, including me, don't use). A Scott is a good place to start. Hang in there for a while. That way your subsequent decisions will be based on some finer acoustic references (the RF-7s and Scott). Dean, I was going to send a description of the conditioning device I "designed" but I am going to use CAD to make a schematic and mechanical dwg .. not because it is particularly complex, but because it's how I know how to communicate such things. I think it would be wonderful for you to fill the crossover rework gap, and you can provide product with conditioned caps which would be a very big deal. I'll be happy to pass along any info I have. Leo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tubinhard Posted December 27, 2003 Share Posted December 27, 2003 George, There are two ways you can go. 1) Use the original PCBs already attached to the rear of the terminal cups (the black plastic round things on the back where the speaker cables attach. The small boards are scewed to the back) -- and simply have two caps and one resistor replaced. A simple enough mod, and I would be glad to do it for you. All you would have to do is remove the terminal cups, unhook the wires from the drivers (label the wires with some tape so know where they go), box the terminal cups with attached boards, and send them to me. Since I could do the work in about an hour or so, you would only be without music for the time it takes to ship to me and back to you. I would do this using the very fine RelCap AudioCap PPT Thetas and Mills resistors. Price would be $225 for both boards -- which would include parts, labor, and shipping. I see no reason to use the Auricaps. It's a good metallized polyproplene, but for just a little bit more money you can get the best film and tin foil there is. 2) Chuck the PCBs. and go with full blown upgraded boards. Point to point wired on Baltic Birch boards. All parts are replaced with the best there is. $600 shipped. Yeah, this stuff ain't cheap Leo, that would be wonderful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipsch RF7 Posted December 27, 2003 Share Posted December 27, 2003 ---------------- On 12/27/2003 4:48:22 PM Hepta Bronte wrote: George, There are two ways you can go. 1) Use the original PCBs already attached to the rear of the terminal cups (the black plastic round things on the back where the speaker cables attach. The small boards are scewed to the back) -- and simply have two caps and one resistor replaced. A simple enough mod, and I would be glad to do it for you. All you would have to do is remove the terminal cups, unhook the wires from the drivers (label the wires with some tape so know where they go), box the terminal cups with attached boards, and send them to me. Since I could do the work in about an hour or so, you would only be without music for the time it takes to ship to me and back to you. I would do it using the very fine RelCap AudioCap PPT Thetas and Mills resistors. Price would be $225 for both boards -- which would include parts, labor, and shipping. 2) Chuck the PCBs. and go with full blown upgraded boards. Point to point wired on Baltic Birch boards. All parts a replaced with the best there is. $600 shipped. Yeah, this stuff ain't cheap Leo, that would be wonderful. ---------------- Hmmm, on the baltic birch boards do the mount exactly the same as the original board? Will they make a big diffrence in sound going to the full blown upgraded board? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tubinhard Posted December 27, 2003 Share Posted December 27, 2003 The reason for going to the plywood boards is because the parts are SO much bigger -- there is just no way to get them on the PCB. There are pictures here on the site somewhere -- I will hunt them down and post the pictures so you can see what I mean. The circuit is near identical. Leo taught me how to trace out a PCB properly, and sent me a schematic as well. There are only three differences between Leo's boards and mine circuit wise. 1) Leo went with the Jensen Paper in Oils, and I went with the PPT Thetas and ICW Clarity Caps. 2) Leo stayed with the stock inductors in the high frequency section, and I changed them out going with the Janzens from Denmark. 3) Leo dropped the resistor value in the notch circuit to 1.66 ohms, and I accomplished the same by slightly dropping the DCR of one of the inductors, and using 1.86 ohms for the resistor. I never did the partial upgrade, I rebuilt mine from the ground up from the get-go. So, how much difference there is between the partial upgrade and the full blown method is unknown to me -- all I know is that Leo and myself are reporting similiar results over the stock offering. You could start with the partial upgrade, and those caps could then be used later for the full blown version down the road. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipsch RF7 Posted December 27, 2003 Share Posted December 27, 2003 If im going to do it, im going all the way. Do the new boards mount the exact same way? How long would a set of the new boards take to make? Im going to order a set of the new ground up boards in a few months, once i get my Scott in and get it setup and the speakers are broken in. Thanks for the tip and the help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tubinhard Posted December 27, 2003 Share Posted December 27, 2003 "Do the new boards mount the exact same way?" No, they are simply too big. Leo's are sitting in the bottoms of his RF-7s, and mine are sitting outside, on the floor -- between the amps and speakers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipsch RF7 Posted December 27, 2003 Share Posted December 27, 2003 Do you have picture of them? What they look like? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tubinhard Posted December 27, 2003 Share Posted December 27, 2003 How long does it take to make them? It takes me about a week working in my spare time. I think I built the last set in four days. It's tough because I work lots of hours, and I only end up with about an hour a night before I feel shutting my brain down. Of course, I can do just about anything with these, and in fact I have. My last set were pained black, and the layout was different. Those pics are out here too -- but I can't find them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipsch RF7 Posted December 27, 2003 Share Posted December 27, 2003 Ok, i see now. So how do i hook up all those wires Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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