Thors1982 Posted January 22, 2004 Author Share Posted January 22, 2004 Right now I am looking at around $200 possible $250. I would love to get the HTS2500 or HTS3500. But I was extremely worried about a warranty if I bought it through ebay or online. So I was just going to pick up the powerbar at Best Buy. I admit I am making this very complicated.... but I don't know the difference between the HTS2500 and say the Powerbar 1100. I see that the powerbar has more joules but it cost $100 less, so thats kinda confusing. I kinda know the difference between HTS2000 and HTS2500 but its just numbers to me. I am very new to home theater and its sad that I bought good speakers, reciever, and cables. But the surge protector has me the most confused :-( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minn_male42 Posted January 22, 2004 Share Posted January 22, 2004 ccsakura, i live in minnesota.... the two strikes were at different locations about 6 years apart... thors, basically, like many other things out there....you get what you pay for..... spend $30 on a surge protector....and you have about $30 of protection.... spend $250 on a surge protector and you get about 8 times the protection of your $30 unit.... there are exceptions to every rule.....but you can use it as a general guideline..... as was mentioned above by someone else.... a quality surge protector is something you buy once and that's it..... don't go cheap on something that will probably last many, many years...... after you've upgraded your receiver a couple of times....got the new and improved dvd player..... etc..... you will still have your original surge protector (that is if it is a good one)..... surge-x for example has a ten year warranty on all of their units..... and in the 9 years the company has been in existence they have not had one unit fail or fail to protect any connected equipment.... many of my dealers/contractors will only guarantee their audio/video/computer/network installations against all failures if their customer agrees to upgrade to the surge-x option...... it's your money and your equipment..... if you want to trust it to a $30 unit...ok.... but don't say that you weren't given more than a few much better options from this thread.... cheers!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tankhokie Posted January 22, 2004 Share Posted January 22, 2004 great feed my paranoia.... ok, quick question, is it harmful to run surge protectors in series?? i used to have 2 hooked up that way b/c the lack of outlets, but not anymore. just wondering if it was a bad thing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minn_male42 Posted January 22, 2004 Share Posted January 22, 2004 running the surge protectors in series is ok... you do need to be careful in this respect if your surge protectors limit the available current to your equipment.... for example....i use to own a tripplite isobar ultra surge protector.... when you read the specs.... it stated... "rated for 15 amp use... output 12 amps"... this surge protector limited the current flowing to the equipment.... putting two of these units in series could possibly reduce the available current to only 9 or 10 amps..... this might not be an issue...unless you plug a high power amp into the second unit.... get a surge protector that doesn't limit current in any way.... and if you need more outlets...get an outlet strip with no surge protection buit-in..... additionally, many of the lower cost surge protectors don't even state how many amps that are available for your equipment.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minn_male42 Posted January 22, 2004 Share Posted January 22, 2004 for more information on the types of surge protectors available..... (from the surge-x website) The Types of Surge Suppressors All surge protectors can be put into two main categories based on the way they operate: shunt mode and series mode. The accompanying diagrams show one example of each type: an MOV (Metal-Oxide Varistor) based surge protector as an example of shunt mode, and SurgeX as an example of series mode. Shunt Mode Protection The most common type of surge protector at this time is shunt mode. Most of these rely on MOVs connected in such a way as to shunt surge energy to ground. An MOV is a semiconductor device which "turns on" when the voltage across it exceeds a certain value. MOVs are about the size of a quarter, and cost about a quarter (in high volume). When a surge appears at the terminals of an MOV, its resistance drops dramatically as the voltage across it exceeds its threshold, and it conducts the surge current, diverting the surge to the neutral wire or the ground wire. Shunt mode protection is therefore diversion technology - the surge is diverted from the hot wire to the neutral wire or the ground wire. MOV-based surge protectors have been in use since the 1970's but have limitations that must be understood if they are to be used reliably. Of prime concern is the fact that MOVs have a lifetime "joule" rating. The joule is an engineering term for energy (energy can be measured in joules). The joule rating for an MOV means that when a particular MOV has received the specified amount of energy, it no longer works! This could be the result of one or two large surges or several small surges. Therefore, for MOVs to be used reliably, a strict replacement schedule is necessary. It is like not having a gas gauge in your car - you never know when you are going to run out of gas so you have to keep putting more gas in your car! Lack of replacement can have very serious results - MOVs have been known to cause fires. Shunt mode protection has another aspect to it that should be considered when purchasing a surge protection device. That is, that the surges are not handled or contained in any way, they are simply diverted to the neutral wire or the ground wire. If shunt mode protection is working properly, it can, subject to limitations of its let-through voltage, protect a single piece of equipment that does not contain a switching power supply (see section 5. switching power supplies) or a bank of equipment which is all powered from the same 110v outlet. However, because shunt mode diverts surges to ground, it can cause damage to interconnected equipment that is plugged into a different 110V outlet. The reason for this is that the safety ground that is used as the ground reference in audio/video systems is the same ground onto which surges are dumped by shunt mode protection! The surges then travel along the interconnecting cables! All wires including building wiring and interconnect wiring have impedance, which will generate a substantial voltage when the thousands of amps of surge current are suddenly dumped onto such wiring. This is nothing more than Ohms Law. One of the worst case examples of this problem is that of interconnected computers, because computers are often interconnected by long datacomm cables, and plugged into 1l0V outlets at very different parts of a building. The important points for shunt mode protectors are: Cheap and simple to produce Limited lifetime Contaminate ground wire Series Mode Protection Series mode protection was originally developed in the mid 1980's to meet the more demanding requirements of industry. As its name suggests, series mode protection operates in series with the hot wire and works by blocking the surge voltage rather than by diverting the surge current (which could be thousands of amps) to ground. This has the dual advantages that the surge protector does not have to handle thousands of amps of surge current and, most importantly, ground is not contaminated. So, how does series mode protection actually work? The accompanying diagram shows how SurgeX surge protection works. The first line of defense in the SurgeX system (and key to SurgeX protection) is the massive surge reactor which is in series with the hot wire. (It is the weight of the surge reactor that is the reason SurgeX products weigh much more than other surge protectors.) The surge reactor filters out small transients, slows larger surges (surges and transients are very fast), and limits the surge current. All current which passes to equipment connected to a SurgeX unit passes through this filter. The second part of the SurgeX system is an electronic circuit which tracks, clamps and contains the surge energy after it has been slowed by the surge reactor. This energy is then released slowly to the neutral wire, not the ground wire. In this way, the safety ground is never contaminated, and interconnected equipment is not put at risk when a surge comes in on the power lines feeding the equipment. SurgeX has no sacrificial components (such as MOVs) and can withstand thousands of the largest surges normally found on 110v wiring (6000V, 3000A). The SurgeX system also has superior clamping because it tracks the power wave and instantly clamps transients typically to within only 2 volts of the ac power wave! No MOV-based product can claim such excellent clamping. An oscilloscope connected to the output of a SurgeX product barely shows any measurable voltage rise when a surge is injected into the unit, whereas MOV-based products have a very measurable voltage rise. SurgeX products are not available as whole-house protectors because it is important to protect equipment from transients produced within a building as well as surges entering from outside. The best protection is provided by installing a surge protector for each piece (or bank) of equipment rather than installing a whole-house protector. Of course, the all-important question is: does series mode protection really work, and how well does it work? Series mode protection has been used in the most demanding industrial and commercial environments with exemplary performance. It has protected equipment when there have been direct lightning hits on buildings, and has also protected equipment from data errors caused by transients produced inside factories. Furthermore, all SurgeX products meet the highest level of testing that is available from UL - the buyer's absolute guarantee of performance. This will be discussed in the next section. The important points for series mode protection are: Unlimited lifetime No sacrificial components Unsurpassed voltage clamping Safety or reference ground is not contaminated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccsakura Posted January 23, 2004 Share Posted January 23, 2004 ---------------- On 1/22/2004 8:19:13 PM Thors1982 wrote: Right now I am looking at around $200 possible $250. I would love to get the HTS2500 or HTS3500. But I was extremely worried about a warranty if I bought it through ebay or online. So I was just going to pick up the powerbar at Best Buy. I admit I am making this very complicated.... but I don't know the difference between the HTS2500 and say the Powerbar 1100. I see that the powerbar has more joules but it cost $100 less, so thats kinda confusing. I kinda know the difference between HTS2000 and HTS2500 but its just numbers to me. I am very new to home theater and its sad that I bought good speakers, reciever, and cables. But the surge protector has me the most confused :-( ---------------- You can just go bestbuy and pick the HTS2500. I'd say not the 1100 or 2600..... I just checked and their price was just ridiculous. For 1100 it's like the price of HTS2000 and the 2600 was near 3500's price. If it's like minn_male that lives in such dangerous area I'd say get something with warranty for definite protection. Those aren't the place to save few bucks in, it'll burn the whole equipment set out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thors1982 Posted January 23, 2004 Author Share Posted January 23, 2004 Yeah, right now I want the HTS2500 But, I am concerned with the low joule rating, compared to say the powerbars. But the HTS2500 cost more too. So I don't know what I am paying for with the HTS2500 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffinator Posted January 24, 2004 Share Posted January 24, 2004 Try the manufacturer's websites sometime, eh? According to www.monstercable.com, the 2000 has only two filter banks (one audio, one video) where the 2500 has three banks (including the high-current dedicated bank for your amplifier) Gotta do your homework and look carefully. That's a pretty big difference for $50. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muleman Posted May 8, 2004 Share Posted May 8, 2004 Hi all, I am also in the market for a surge protector/line conditioner. I looked at all the monster products and so on. I simply am not reallyimpressed with the MOV technology. I am zeroing in the the ADCOM ACE 315 and 615 products. they do not use the MOV approach. I wonder if anyone has any experience with this product??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenratboy Posted May 8, 2004 Share Posted May 8, 2004 ---------------- On 1/24/2004 9:12:23 AM Griffinator wrote: Try the manufacturer's websites sometime, eh? According to www.monstercable.com, the 2000 has only two filter banks (one audio, one video) where the 2500 has three banks (including the high-current dedicated bank for your amplifier) Gotta do your homework and look carefully. That's a pretty big difference for $50. ---------------- Thats what my eLearning said Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the plummer Posted May 8, 2004 Share Posted May 8, 2004 I have been using an Adcom AC Line enhancer for about 15 years. Works great. would not tell you which one i have as it is buried behind all of my other gear. This one has a neat feature it has a time switch to turn your amps on 10 seconds after everything else powers up to avoid surges. Likewise it turns the amps off thirty seconds before turning everything else on to avoid that nasty "pop" that destroys drivers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TauRus Posted May 8, 2004 Share Posted May 8, 2004 ---------------- On 5/8/2004 10:28:37 AM muleman wrote: Hi all, I am also in the market for a surge protector/line conditioner. I looked at all the monster products and so on. I simply am not reallyimpressed with the MOV technology. I am zeroing in the the ADCOM ACE 315 and 615 products. they do not use the MOV approach. I wonder if anyone has any experience with this product??? ---------------- Muleman, I have Adcom ACE-615. It's been protecting my equipment for about 3 years now, so far no problems at all (knocking on wood ) I also tend to lean towards series mode surge suppressors, like Adcom. In fact, Adcom, Surgex, Brickwal, ZeroSurge all use the same technology licensed from a single company that holds the patent. What is good about Adcom it adds a couple of TV/Cable antenna inputs as well, so your cable will be protected too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muleman Posted May 11, 2004 Share Posted May 11, 2004 I ordered the ACE 315 from an authorized web dealer. I expect it this thursday. Cant wait to hook it up. Will let you know how it works.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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