bryan750 Posted March 4, 2004 Share Posted March 4, 2004 Anyone know about all the hoopla with digital amps is all about? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffinator Posted March 4, 2004 Share Posted March 4, 2004 ---------------- On 3/4/2004 10:04:28 PM bryan750 wrote: Anyone know about all the hoopla with digital amps is all about? ---------------- The hoopla is that they sound better than similarly priced SS amps. Of course, the only digital amps out there are <$500, so what's the comparison? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted March 5, 2004 Share Posted March 5, 2004 There is the highly regarded PS Audio HCA-II at a mere $1700. Digital amps are based on "switching", which is what transistors were actually designed to do to begin with. http://www.psaudio.com/products/hca.asp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piranha Posted March 5, 2004 Share Posted March 5, 2004 Hmmmm....Sonic warmth of tubes???? That's what it says in the "benefit" section. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
playntheblues Posted March 5, 2004 Share Posted March 5, 2004 Ah, Finally something I know a little about Spectron is a VERY good digital amp. John Ulrich is the owner of the company, he was one of the co-founders of infinity speakers. I had one of his first amps the Spectron Digital One. The reviewers over at Absolute Sound just fliped over the sound of his amp. At the time I was runing my Spectron with a pair of VMPS RM40's. I had that amp. for about 6 years and it was excellant! IMHO SS amps. do not even compare. Of course this was before my introduction to tubes . They are not cheap ($3,500.00) and if you need allot of power I think they are a good alternative. All the best, Guy P.S. www.spectron.com You can find the reviews and info at the Spectron site. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted March 5, 2004 Share Posted March 5, 2004 I almost bought the HCA-II, and traded email with several Audiogon members who were selling them -- hoping to replace their tube setups. Each told me the same thing -- a great sounding amp compared to most solid state, but still falling short in delivering the complete package. What people sometimes forget is that it is more than just the "warmth" of tubes that makes them so appealing -- but also the expansive and immersive soundfield they provide. Good tube gear can push the sound clear off the baffles and to the listening position. Solid state can do it too, but not without excessive volume -- at which point you lose the warmth and intimacy of the presentation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bryan750 Posted March 5, 2004 Author Share Posted March 5, 2004 Anyone know anything about the carver zr seris? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelerFan Posted March 5, 2004 Share Posted March 5, 2004 ---------------- On 3/5/2004 3:49:13 PM bryan750 wrote: Anyone know anything about the carver zr seris? ---------------- I know of one on this forum but I don't remember his exact screen name. Minn_male42 or something. I know he runs Carver zr series with KLF Legends I think it is. Hopefully he wiil see this and chime in. I know if I had alot of money I just might buy a Bel Canto EVO6 and an EVO4 and run them in bridged mode. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minn_male42 Posted March 5, 2004 Share Posted March 5, 2004 Anyone know anything about the carver zr series? i use the carver ZR1000 with my KLF-30's..... great sound!..... it's the only solid state amplifier that i've ever used with my klipsch speakers that didn't induce ear fatigue at high levels..... it doesn't sound like a tube amp....more like a very smooth solid state amplifier..... i would highly recommend it to anyone looking for a solid state alternative to tubes that sounds good with klipsch.... I know if I had alot of money I just might buy a Bel Canto EVO6 and an EVO4 and run them in bridged mode i had been drooling over the bel canto line for several years.....when the carver was introduced at well under $1,000 street price, i jumped at it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnysal Posted March 5, 2004 Share Posted March 5, 2004 almost all those amps use chip-amps from the same provider...leok can fill you in he has used the same providers chips in his amps... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted March 5, 2004 Share Posted March 5, 2004 Tripath, isn't it? But don't underestimate the differences in implementation, even if they are the same chip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted March 5, 2004 Share Posted March 5, 2004 Russ -- can you provide a good link for those amps? I would like to take a peek. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minn_male42 Posted March 5, 2004 Share Posted March 5, 2004 dean, http://www.carverpro.com/2003/ cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
louis Posted March 6, 2004 Share Posted March 6, 2004 bell canto has digital amp they are great difference between regular ss amps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leok Posted March 6, 2004 Share Posted March 6, 2004 "Digital" amps are really pulse width modulation or delta modulation devices. The latest generation, to which the Tripath series belongs, have addressed a fundamental noise problem that is characteristic of the two approaches. The result is a low noise amplifier that has no signature of a variable pass element (tube or transistor). The pwm or delta mod technologies are implemented in a variety of "logic" and switching configurations. In my little 8 Watt homebrew, logic and switching are in a single Tripath TA1101B integrated circuit. Higher power implementations tend to keep logic in one package and switching in one or more outboard packages. These amps have no crossover distortion because they have no crossover point. They are also very insensitive to speaker impedance variations. They are very sensitive to power supply noise which directly amplitude-modulates the output. But, with decent power supply design, this issue can be dealt with effectively. I find that for very low level detail (and I'm talking 0.1W and lower), zero feedback, triode tube designs are better. But even there, the tube amps have a "sound" where the digital amps are more neutral. The tube designs do a better job of very fine detail, even if there is a bit of overall coloration. Outside of the very fine detail department, the digital amps are remarkable, and far better than most analog transistor designs. For the record: the TA1101B, which I use in my digital amp, has an op-amp as its input stage, which might account for the lack of final word in the detail department. Other non-feedback (op amps use feedback) applications of pwm or delta mod. may have improved detail capability. Be careful of high power digital amps. If they are not implemented well, there may be considerable noise at the low powers used by Klipsch speakers. Always audition before purchase. Leo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnysal Posted March 7, 2004 Share Posted March 7, 2004 of course paul parrot is right about implementation, and that explains why those amps tend to all sound a little different, even though they all use the tripath chips...bel canto inlcuded...from what I have read and heard I think a few years of trail and error will produce scary-great digital amps. regards, tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abc Posted August 13, 2004 Share Posted August 13, 2004 I'm considering tri-amping my modded KLF30's with a couple of Sonic Impact T-amps to drive the mids and highs, plus a larger amp for the lows. Digital amps scare me a bit with all that switching and pulsing technology. I believe that one of the reasons that high efficiency speakers love single-ended tube amplifiers so much, is that they don't have to deal with crossover distortion and when you're listening to a 102db/watt+ speaker, you're listening with a more microscopic(microsonic?) view of what the amp is doing at that ever-so-delicate first watt. Any low level misinformation that the amp is creating is a much larger percentage of the sound as a whole and that is where SE tube amps shine. Those delicate nuances are revealed intact. I just get a scary mental view of those poor little horn diaphrams attempting to reproduce those jagged little digital imitations of analog wave forms and revealing all sorts of stair-stepping harshness. Should I go ahead with my digital amp project? Would anyone have some ideas about using crossover slopes before the amplifiers to eliminate the speaker's internal crossovers? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leok Posted August 13, 2004 Share Posted August 13, 2004 PWM does not create stair-step output, but little ramps up and down, above and below the desired output voltage. This approach is similar to the SACD approach, except SACD is a form of delta modulation (equal intervals between each decision to go up or down) whereas PWM, in a single cycle, always goes up some and down some, how much of each depending on the pulse width (thus pulse width modulation). The modulation rate out of the Tripath TA1101B is variable from slightly below to slightly above 1MHz. Filters follow the output switches. Sized properly, pwm is remarkably quiet but capable of producing very low level detail. If the switching supply voltages are too big (as in capable of many Watts), the little up-down ramps get big enough to create a noise floor that obscures low level signals. There are ways to deal affectively with this, even with relatively high powered amps. But one must be careful. Especially in a tri-amp situation, where the tweeter may never see even a Watt, excessive power may mask a lot of detail. If you're going to use pwm amps, you should study them, and get a few demo boards (Tripath sells some) and give them a try. Leo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuneBug Posted August 13, 2004 Share Posted August 13, 2004 After quite a bit about the (mostly glowing) results other people have gotten with these digital amplifiers, I decided to take the plunge myself. I was originally interested in the Panasonic SA-XR70, but they were supposed to come in August, and I have yet to see them available. After waiting and waiting like a 5 year old waiting for Santa to come, I decided to see if there were any other options. I heard good things about the Sharp 1-bit models, but they were only 2 channel stereo. On a lark, I went down to J&R Audio in NYC, and came across the Harman Kardon DPR-1001. My first amplifer was an old HK385i, which I had hooked up to my Heresy's (which I still have), so I knew the kind of sound quality that I could expect. The DPR-1001 won a design and engineering prize at CES in 2003, and had originally retailed for around $1300. They had only two units left, and were trying to clear them out for the newer, more powerful models. The DPR-1001 is rated at 50 watts, but since my HT system is Klipsch all around, I knew from experience that it would be more than enough. They made me an offer I could not refuse, and I went for it. I am happy to say that these amplifiers are the real deal. The low level resolution is unbelievable. The surround channel separation is fantatic, and straight-up 2 channel stereo reproduction can bring tears to your eyes. The difference between it and my old amplifier (Technics SA-TX30) was like night and day. It sounds equally good at low or high volumes, and it did so right out of the box. I have had it for about 3 weeks, and would not dream of going back. One of the best features it has is it's bass management, which allows independent, simultaneous crossover settings to a subwoofer setting for front, center and rear channels. I have finally achieved seamless integration of all the speakers, and could not be happier! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abc Posted August 16, 2004 Share Posted August 16, 2004 Thanks for the support, leok. So, does my triamp idea sound, sound? I'm using an analog pre out and I was hoping to be able to use two little Sonic Impact amplifiers with some sort of electronic crossover to keep the amps from any undue strain. I would like to mount them as close to the horn voice coils as possible. Any suggestions on crossovers? I can't seem to come up with any effeciency or response specs on the KLF-30's mid and high horns. Fun stuff! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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