Klipsch RF7 Posted March 15, 2004 Share Posted March 15, 2004 Hi Guys, What is the definition of Jitter in digital playback and what causes it and what are the audible signs of jitter? Any ways to reduce it? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffinator Posted March 15, 2004 Share Posted March 15, 2004 www.jitter.de Everything you wanted to know about it, and a lot you probably didn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Disc Posted March 15, 2004 Share Posted March 15, 2004 As with anything what works for one setup does not always work for another. Reducing jitter is always a good thing. That was a good link. Here is another I just came across. http://www.stereophile.com/reference/1290jitter/ tb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipsch RF7 Posted March 15, 2004 Author Share Posted March 15, 2004 Very, very nice!! Thanks to both of you, I learned alot from both those sites. I read all the articles on Jitter.DE and the Stereophile article, I am much more informed as a result. Thanks again! So in order to reduce jitter, a good transport is in order and a very nice DAC to keep the information fed to it true to the source and try to strip out the unwanted noise that jitter introduces into the signal and keep it around 200ps Which then results in better soundstage, less graininess and warmer sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted March 15, 2004 Share Posted March 15, 2004 I just try to jitter in unison to the jitter and it all balances out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BackBurner Posted March 15, 2004 Share Posted March 15, 2004 A friend of mine has a very high price jitter reduction decvise made by " chamalot " we A/B this devise on several different kits with positive results everytime. " But " the jitter reduction unit was thousands on dollars , money i would rather spend else where and not worry to much about the jitter issues . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
analogman Posted March 15, 2004 Share Posted March 15, 2004 Jitter is just another component of "Perfect Sound Forever".All digital formats enjoy this feature to some degree.The best anti-jitter device known to man is a good turntable! Analogman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Disc Posted March 15, 2004 Share Posted March 15, 2004 Yea, there is no perfect format. Analog is subject to warping, inner groove distortion, pops, ticks etc. Digital has Jitter among other things. hmmm. Maybe I'll learn to play the guitar and have my music live. Heh. - tb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipsch RF7 Posted March 16, 2004 Author Share Posted March 16, 2004 Thanks all for the info, greatly appreciated. Just got in Rocky 1 and Rocky 2 soundtracks in last night on CD and played them through my sony 300 disc changer going through the External MSB Link DAC and played Alone in the Ring which is the song at the end of the last round when Rocky beats Apollo Creed, its wonderful music that just lifts you up, Bill Conti was a wonderful composer for Rocky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leok Posted March 16, 2004 Share Posted March 16, 2004 Now we just hope the jitter wasn't introduced when the audio was sampled, or mixed. That could accound for the poor sound of many CDs. Leo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy Dee Posted March 16, 2004 Share Posted March 16, 2004 I always have trouble with jitters from too much caffeine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipsch RF7 Posted March 16, 2004 Author Share Posted March 16, 2004 ---------------- On 3/15/2004 10:05:02 PM NOSValves wrote: I just try to jitter in unison to the jitter and it all balances out ---------------- LMAO!! I jitter constantly from the brain damage as well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Disc Posted March 16, 2004 Share Posted March 16, 2004 Jitter introduced into the mastering process does in fact happen, which is one reason I posted the thread on using Black CD-R copies. You can correct the Jitter of a poorly mastered CD by copying it and burning it correctly. - tb ---------------- On 3/16/2004 12:23:30 PM leok wrote: Now we just hope the jitter wasn't introduced when the audio was sampled, or mixed. That could accound for the poor sound of many CDs. Leo ---------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Disc Posted March 16, 2004 Share Posted March 16, 2004 Jitter introduced into the mastering process does in fact happen, which is one reason I posted the thread on using Black CD-R copies. You can correct the Jitter of a poorly mastered CD by copying it and burning it correctly. - tb ---------------- On 3/16/2004 12:23:30 PM leok wrote: Now we just hope the jitter wasn't introduced when the audio was sampled, or mixed. That could accound for the poor sound of many CDs. Leo ---------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leok Posted March 16, 2004 Share Posted March 16, 2004 tbabb, Thanks for pointing me in the right direction. Obviously I missed it. Leo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strabo Posted March 16, 2004 Share Posted March 16, 2004 ---------------- On 3/16/2004 3:29:01 PM tbabb wrote: You can correct the Jitter of a poorly mastered CD by copying it and burning it correctly. - tb ---------------- How does burning a CD to a black CD-R fix jitter that is on the original? Sorry, I don't understand. I'm more confused after reading the jitter.de page. The jitter.de website says: "Avoiding jitter is a must for digital recording (analog to digital conversion), because if the music is recorded together with jitter, its too late, the original or potential quality is gone, forever." Then later they offer an external fix for jitter. How does that external jitter fixer-upper know the difference between jitter from the recording, and jitter from the playback? If it can't tell the difference, if there is any, then does it fixes both? If it fixes both, where does that put their previous statement? Are the different sources of jitter distinguishable? So if you re-record a jitter infected CD you can fix the jitter and put it on a new CD? Told you I'm confused. It's not that I dissagree with the existance of jitter, it's that I'm skeptical that a quick fix is available as simple as rolling your own, or bolting in a little black box. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Disc Posted March 16, 2004 Share Posted March 16, 2004 Download the pdf link in the Black CD-R thread. The document is well written and explains jitter and why this works pretty good. The Black CD-R instelf does not fix the jitter from the master but does help prevent optical induced jitter in the CD transport. There are also attributes of black media that lend itself well to creating even and properly spaced pits on the CD-R media. Again, refer to the document. Fixing jitter induced in the mastering process and on Commercial CDs can be done because computers when they are reading the CD Audio data do not care about the music data itself, to a computer it's just data. So once you have read a Audio CD into your computer and have a CD-Image on Hard Disk, you essentially have a JITTER FREE copy of the audio CD. Jitter cannot exist here because there are no transport issues or pits to worry about. Now if you burn that Audio CD image using the proper techniques described in that PDF document, you can burn a Jitter Free Audio CD, even though the original had Jitter on it. All the bits are there, but since you will be buring properly, the pits that make up the ones and zeros will be nicely spaced. I don't know If I have explained it properly, so it's best if you read that well written pdf and it may make better sense. Hope that helps. tb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffinator Posted March 16, 2004 Share Posted March 16, 2004 ---------------- On 3/16/2004 5:43:53 PM Strabo wrote: How does burning a CD to a black CD-R fix jitter that is on the original? Sorry, I don't understand. I'm more confused after reading the jitter.de page. The jitter.de website says: "Avoiding jitter is a must for digital recording (analog to digital conversion), because if the music is recorded together with jitter, its too late, the original or potential quality is gone, forever." Then later they offer an external fix for jitter. How does that external jitter fixer-upper know the difference between jitter from the recording, and jitter from the playback? If it can't tell the difference, if there is any, then does it fixes both? If it fixes both, where does that put their previous statement? Are the different sources of jitter distinguishable? So if you re-record a jitter infected CD you can fix the jitter and put it on a new CD? Told you I'm confused. It's not that I dissagree with the existance of jitter, it's that I'm skeptical that a quick fix is available as simple as rolling your own, or bolting in a little black box. ---------------- 1) The "re-copying" a CD that was pressed at the plant with a jittery signal will not fix anything. Jitter is timing error that causes samples to be interpolated by the DAC, creating the "time smear" effect. Once it's recorded, mixed, mastered, or pressed into a recording, it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it. 2) The only jitter that you can hope to combat "externally" is the jitter that's introduced by poorly manufactured Coax, XLR, or Optical connectors between your digital source and your DAC. 3) Having a high-quality playback device, preferably with a wordclock input, a high-quality DAC, and high-quality glass-fiber optical or heavy-gauge, well-shielded coaxial or XLR cable is the only way for you to ensure that minimal jitter will be introduced by your system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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