Question4U Posted March 15, 2004 Share Posted March 15, 2004 hey im another newbie that recently bought rf-35s and am very happy with them. well, i decided to get a sub next but after a couple weeks of reading reviews and opinions im kinda struggling to decide. im on budget. i dont want to spend more than 700. preferably around the 600 range. here are the variables: room is 18 1/2 x 12 x 8 foot ceiling family room - concrete slab 70 percent music/ 30 percent movies. music includes: pink floyd, zep, old vh, rock and roll basically. no rap. ive been playing guitar for 20 years, so i like sound detail. i do not want overwhelming bass. want it to mix in nice with the music. listening level will be moderate. not low, not too loud either. loud on occasion. a/v is yamaha rx640. yes, it isnt audiophile stuff, but like i said, im looking at a certain price range. your opinions will help. ok, i was kinda torn between hsu vtf3mk, vtf2, and the svs 20-39pci. i read lots of posts where klipsch rsw-12 and 15 are the best musical subs. im not willing to spend >700, so that rules them out. what do you guys recommend? i really just want something that will give nice bass and blend in well with my 35s at a price that makes sense to me. anyone who takes the time to answer, thank you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccsakura Posted March 15, 2004 Share Posted March 15, 2004 I'm not familiar with HSU subs........... but SVS 20-39 PCi, SVS PB1ISD, RW-12 or RSW-10 would be great choices you don't have the huge room to think about getting bigger sized sub but the money would be limitation. Those 4 lie on the range that you are looking for btw I'd like to hear some comparison about RW12 and RSW10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheelman Posted March 16, 2004 Share Posted March 16, 2004 I have not heard either but have heard good reviews of the hsu. I heard good reviews of the svs to. If you get the svs go with the tuned 25 that one was made for music. It has alot of kick in the music zone the other ones are pretty much the same sub but tuned lower and have more of the sound for the real real lows. They are also larger. But i think they are the same amp. I was going to get an svs before i got a great deal on my mirage that kicks by the way for both. Music is just awesome with it. YOu can feel the kick drum slamming you in your back and chest. I like guitar big time to. So i know what your talking about. You know what is tight and good for music is a polk audio sub. They really sound good for music. Not the best for movies but man great for music also those athena subs are down right awesome for anything tight and deep. They look like little washing machines. My brother has one. And i would have to say it would woop my old velodyne cht10 which by the way is another good one for music and not bad for movies. The athena at four hundred dollars may be your best bet. Plus you could probally send it back if you didn'tlike same with polk and velodynes. But then again for two hundred more you could get the svs. descisions descisions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formica Posted March 16, 2004 Share Posted March 16, 2004 ---------------- On 3/15/2004 7:59:52 PM Question4U wrote: ok, i was kinda torn between hsu vtf3mk, vtf2, and the svs 20-39pci. i read lots of posts where klipsch rsw-12 and 15 are the best musical subs. im not willing to spend >700, so that rules them out. ---------------- Guess you're open to a larger sub as you didn't mention size? A tube sub will give you more performance for a smaller cost. You would have to first decide if you can live with a tall tube in the corner. I think the VTF3 and the SVS 25-31Pci are similar in performance but quite different in format. I true comparison would be: Box: either the HSU VTF3 -or- SVS PB1-ISD -or- Klipsch RW-12 Tube: either the TN-1220HO (250W) -or- SVS 25-31Pci For the money, I think the SVS 25-31Pci is your best bet, while the HSU VTF3 is the best bet if you want a box sub instead. Unfortunately the SVS PB2 does not fall into your budget, but would best all of the above. Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Question4U Posted March 16, 2004 Author Share Posted March 16, 2004 thanks guys for taking the time to respond. ok, i was leaning toward the svs, but just wasn't sure. i guess i can always return it if i dont like it. i wonder if anyone has heard both the 25-31 and the 20-39..im curious as to how they compare at each volume setting (lower mid high) with music and HT. thanks again. anyone else? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Question4U Posted March 16, 2004 Author Share Posted March 16, 2004 i just read about the svs pb2. now im considering paying more. says it is really good for music. what i dont understand is how the performance will be better with that than the 25-21pci. can anyone explain to me how the performance will differ for music? i understand how it may go to lower depths of bass than the 25, but for music, how is it better? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheelman Posted March 16, 2004 Share Posted March 16, 2004 Well the tech from svs. I am not sure of his name told me if i was going strickly for music the 25 it will have a higher sound pressure level at the crucial areas of music where music bumps. The lower 20 or whatever model will loose the high level of slam with music but will ad more slam for movies. Kind of get it. All subs are pretty much like this you usually have to sacrifice something for one perfect thing. Can you live with a huge 16 inch diameter tube in your corner? I thought this through very hard and i still may get one. They are covered in a fabric that is of good quality. So if you have a cat beware it could be his new toy. I did the dimensions and it is bigger than it may sound. YOu could get the 25 and have them tune it to 22 and this will give you a inbetween sound. For free they will do this. But if you listen to mainly music you may want to go with the 25. Their are alot of good subs out their that just need to be found. I see so many different companys lately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccsakura Posted March 16, 2004 Share Posted March 16, 2004 ---------------- On 3/16/2004 9:37:25 PM wheelman wrote: Well the tech from svs. I am not sure of his name told me if i was going strickly for music the 25 it will have a higher sound pressure level at the crucial areas of music where music bumps. The lower 20 or whatever model will loose the high level of slam with music but will ad more slam for movies. Kind of get it. All subs are pretty much like this you usually have to sacrifice something for one perfect thing. Can you live with a huge 16 inch diameter tube in your corner? I thought this through very hard and i still may get one. They are covered in a fabric that is of good quality. So if you have a cat beware it could be his new toy. I did the dimensions and it is bigger than it may sound. YOu could get the 25 and have them tune it to 22 and this will give you a inbetween sound. For free they will do this. But if you listen to mainly music you may want to go with the 25. Their are alot of good subs out their that just need to be found. I see so many different companys lately. ---------------- Giving you some back up: Refer to the SVS official site: 16-46PCi is in purple, 20-39PCi is in red, and the 25-31PCi is in light blue. They do very similar after 25Hz, but 25-31 does a little better on the higher end but lower end just reversed. SVS produces much more subs now than they used to. They had only several models before(based on the 16/20/25 model and put on different amps) and now they have lots of box subs. Especially for the box sub, PB1/PB2(both ISD and +) is just directly competing with the RW-10/12 or even RSW-10 and 12. I'm still looking forward for more comparison between them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formica Posted March 17, 2004 Share Posted March 17, 2004 ---------------- On 3/16/2004 9:10:51 PM Question4U wrote: what i dont understand is how the performance will be better with that than the 25-21pci. can anyone explain to me how the performance will differ for music? ---------------- There has been sooo much talk about the SVS subs on these forums and online, that Klipsch now has a couple in their possession for testing. Rumour has it that they will have a SVS (as well as several other brands) for comparison to their Klipsch subs for those who will be visiting the open house this year in Indy. Itll be interesting to hear from others how they compare. As for the differences between the 25-31Pci and the PB2-ISD ... well in the PB2 you are basically looking at a PAIR of 25-31Pci in one box. - They use the same drivers 12" SVS-ISD (1 in the tube and 2 in the box) - The same amp power per driver (320W in the tube and 600W in the box) Apart from that, the PB series adds variable tuning (16Hz, 20Hz or 25Hz tuning with foam port plugs) as well as variable subsonic filter (low-level cut-off at 16Hz, 20Hz or 25Hz). You can retune your sub for music, HT, or whatever you prefer... I must warn you to check / mock up the dimensions before ordering as this is a pretty large sub. For that matter, two tubes are also quite large and hard to place in one corner to maximize room gain. Want to know how some of these HSU and SVS subs compare unofficially? Check out the Why have a subwoofer shootout ? thread at the AVS Forum (59 pages long) That said, I prefer box over tube subs... so Id lean towards the PB2. Dont be shy to send SVS an Email... the are well known for their honest recommendations even when it means selling a less expensive sub. Later... Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Question4U Posted March 17, 2004 Author Share Posted March 17, 2004 that really helps a lot. i leaning definitely toward the 25 again. im not that much of a HT enthusiast. im really buying all these speakers etc for music, so i think im going to go with the 25. i dont really feel i need the capability to switch between the different settings since its primarily music. i thought that the higher price tag bought a better driver or something else that really affected the sound quality for music. since it is basically just two of the 25s, i dont think i need that. after all, im not trying to play music for my neighborhood, just my family room which isn't huge. thanks a lot for the info. i have sent a few emails already and wanted some of the wisdom of the posters in this forum. id be interested to see a chart of the 25 compared with say, a rws-10 or 12. ill check out the link you provided. peace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Question4U Posted March 17, 2004 Author Share Posted March 17, 2004 wow, that is an awesome thread. i learned so much from about half of it already. i really recommend it to anyone who is interested in SVS and HSU. It isn't as biased toward SVS as seems to be the case here on this forum. Check it out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juba310 Posted March 17, 2004 Share Posted March 17, 2004 I own an SVS PcI 25-31, and I am amazed at how it sounds. For my first step into real home audio, this sub has more than surpassed my expectations. So if you go with an SVS, you won't be sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JewishAMerPrince Posted March 18, 2004 Share Posted March 18, 2004 ---------------- On 3/17/2004 12:08:15 AM formica wrote: As for the differences between the 25-31Pci and the PB2-ISD ... well in the PB2 you are basically looking at a PAIR of 25-31Pci in one box. ---------------- From my understanding gleaned from another BB a PB2 ISD should have 3db more headroom than 2 25-31 Pcis. Somewhere there is a long techincal discussion of why, but I'll just pass on the important part. Also, having both woofers colocated in the same box will reduce the possibilities of phase cancellations at certain frequencies. This should theoretically make speaker placement an easier task. I say theoretically because the PB2 is a really big box that doesn't fit just anywhere. Jerry Rappaport Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccsakura Posted March 18, 2004 Share Posted March 18, 2004 ---------------- On 3/18/2004 7:21:04 PM JewishAMerPrince wrote: From my understanding gleaned from another BB a PB2 ISD should have 3db more headroom than 2 25-31 Pcis. Somewhere there is a long techincal discussion of why, but I'll just pass on the important part. Also, having both woofers colocated in the same box will reduce the possibilities of phase cancellations at certain frequencies. This should theoretically make speaker placement an easier task. I say theoretically because the PB2 is a really big box that doesn't fit just anywhere. Jerry Rappaport ---------------- For the 3db increment of volume, it should be the constructive inference of both woofers(since they are placed so close to each other, and the wavelength is extremely long, as they produce the frequency the waves would probably lie on the node and anti-node in the same time). Perhaps there's more deeper technical answer for the architecture of the sub, I'm not too certain at this point. The truth is you can place 2 25-31 easily but not a PB2 in house(except you look for an extra chair ) The phase can barely occur(it still has its chance, but bare) for low freq. It will happen in higher frequency much higher chance. The theoretical calculation would be the wavelength of low freq. is 3000km-15000km and the higher freq would be down to 15km. You have to hit the same wavelength in order to produce the cancellation(sure they have cancellation in between but has to be 1/2+n). Some people said that they move a little position for the speakers and have entire different result by the movement of interbetween the different phase produced by different speakers(you have 7 speakers and it has much more chances). Don't forget about the reflections of walls are not even considered(testing is better than calculating for the walls ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikekid Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 Hi there. Thought I'd chime in here. My living room is about 18' X 20', vaulted ceilings, opening from a corner into the dining room/kitchen, corner woodstove, and a bay window. The front door takes up a corner as well. Definitely a less than desirable room for speaker/sub placement. No available corner at all, and a large opening at one end. My Hsu sub is between the left ChorusII and the entertainment center. The left Chorus is near that large opening. I am very impressed with this sub (if I wasn't, I would have sold it, or sent it back pronto.) especially with it's performance in this room. Incredible really. Very CLEAN and powerful sound. I have it turned about half way up, any louder and it gets ridiculous in here. I don't need any more than what this subwoofer provides. I of course still have my trusty SW12II helping out my rear surrounds..... Anyway, I would recommend the Hsu VTF3 to my own mother without hesitation! I have NOT found any faults with it at all. Take care Mike ( The Yamaha/Hsu Underdog) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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