iXtreme Posted July 5, 2001 Share Posted July 5, 2001 I think your talking out of your butt again. Making a cable and connector change will for sure make a difference, maybe small but still a difference. Pure OFC cable has less resistance throughout making signal transfer easier. Adding 24K pins to the sub end keeps bare wire from eventaully tarnishing so hence a better connect in the long run. Better 1/8 jacks are way better machined to fit the socket better thus a better contact with less oxygen inside. You want stories... here's one..... the gravel road will get you there sure but it's dirty and bumpy. The paved road is clean and smooth. Remember, your opinion is just that, your opinion. These are the facts, the better the signal path, the better the signal at the end product. Less work for the amp to push thru... less resistance from poor wires. Wires actually have to be balanced ect.... I changed my wires and connects today and there IS a difference, the mids actually move now... with factory wires they never moved. There's your proof that it does make a diff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SomeGuy15 Posted July 5, 2001 Share Posted July 5, 2001 The only reason to change the connector is because people are getting broken connections when the sats or wires are moved, thus causing the crackling noise. I've already said THIS IS A WORTH THE MONEY. However this is a product defect and Klipsch SHOULDN'T have ever let this happen. Klipsch should fix it for free. And about your cables rant, first of all, there is no such thing is pure OFC. The resistance between 99.999999% and 99% copper is negligible. Do some research before you post your "theories" quote: These are the facts, the better the signal path, the better the signal at the end product. Less work for the amp to push thru... less resistance from poor wires This is utter bullshit. Do you have any idea the resistance of even a thin piece of copper wire COMPARED to the resistance of your speaker. It is INSIGNIFICANT. Your amp won't be able to tell the difference. Also FYI, if the cables had a significant resistance, the amp would actually be more happy as it has to deliver less current, meaning less heat. The Promedia amps aren't sending 60W to the satellites, so you don't need 16 gauge wires. quote: 24K pins to the sub end keeps bare wire from eventaully tarnishing so hence a better connect in the long run Yes and unless you carefully solder the cables to the plugs (not those screw tightening types), it'll tarnish anyway! quote: You want stories... here's one..... the gravel road will get you there sure but it's dirty and bumpy. The paved road is clean and smooth. WRONG! This is physics we're talking about and your analogy couldn't be more wrong. No offense, but you have no idea what you're talking about. I wouldn't be surprised if you lack knowledge of even simple electronics to even realise what cable impedence is and what its effects are, let alone transmission line theory to fully understand how cables work. quote: I changed my wires and connects today and there IS a difference, the mids actually move now... with factory wires they never moved. There's your proof that it does make a diff. I was also fooled by all this "audiophile" trash and I change the cables to my speakers too. Initially I thought the midrange was fuller and more involving. But now that I'm more familiar with hifi and understand transmission line theory better, I realised that it isn't really possible. I tried a more exhaustive objective test and guess what, no differences. Just I said in the other post, most of the time, its due to the placebo effect. You hear what you want to hear, irrespective. I'm not the only one how believes speaker cable companies are milking the uneducated public for every penny. There is no scientific reason why expensive thick cables would sound noticeably better, nor have there been any objective tests to show this. Read the post titled "Replacing ALL the wires-How much improvment?" , Dunlavy's tests is one of many which proves the same thing. People are being fooled by all this audiophile-cable hype. I'm man enough to admit I wasted $100 on new cables, ARE YOU? I'm just trying to stop u guys from making what could be a costly mistake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SomeGuy15 Posted July 5, 2001 Share Posted July 5, 2001 Like I said before, you guys should be asking for stuff like better quality control (loose connections and crackling preamps) and better heat dissipation from the amps. A "cable upgrade" option is stupid, especially considering that YOU'RE USING CHEAP COMPUTER SPEAKERS! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DwK Posted July 5, 2001 Share Posted July 5, 2001 Howdy Someguy. iXtreme, I would have refrained from making this post... But thats me. Someguy: I made a reply under my Topic (where this began) Correct me if I am wrong with what I am saying... How old are you BTW? I am only 16, so here it is. I CAN BE WRONG!! not often, but it happens "placebo" << could of swore this was the name of a group or a song.... some reason Pure Mornin also comes to mind... Think that was the name of the song. On the topic of Large speaker wire internaly. Klipsch's new Reference series is shipping with Monster Wire inside, they say it improves the preformance. I remember you saying in an earlier post that the larger wire wouldnt matter unless you were using high end speakers, amps or something else.. cant remember. Is Klipsch just toying with our minds, or is this for real? For one, I think it is (for real). ------------------ Living Room: Yamaha Natural Sound A-500 Stereo Amplifier 2 Klipsch Heresys on A switch 2 Fisher STV-873 on B switch My Room: Klipsch Pro Medias 2 Fisher Surrounds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DwK Posted July 5, 2001 Share Posted July 5, 2001 Oh and Someguy can you teach me how to Talk out of your butt?.. sounds fun. ------------------ Living Room: Yamaha Natural Sound A-500 Stereo Amplifier 2 Klipsch Heresys on A switch 2 Fisher STV-873 on B switch My Room: Klipsch Pro Medias 2 Fisher Surrounds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iXtreme Posted July 5, 2001 Author Share Posted July 5, 2001 Personally i think that someguy is a blowhard. How is it physically possible to take factory small gauge wires and replace them with heavier better quality copper wiring and terminate them with better ends and get no difference. That is impossible to not get a difference. Klipsch uses better wire on their new reference design but i guess you know better than their engineers with 50+ years experience. And you may think their crappy computer speakers but they are NOT ht and compared to all other P.C. speakers out there these very high end, if not the top end. You sound disgruntled... seems as if life came along and took a big meaty dump on you. Take care and ease up will ya' while I enjoy my life. If what you were saying <u>WERE</u> true, then Lucasfilm specs for THX systems and theaters as well as reference Acoustic Research and Monster Cable to name a few would all be con- artists. Personally I like the quality of all three so I somehow think your a bit off center here. Standard speaker wire is not 99% true copper too, it's mixed with tin where as quality OFC has no tin content and therefore better conductivity. To make a connect oxygen and tarnish free requires more than solder, the connect must distort the two metals together (pin and speaker cable) This the only <u>true</u> oxygen free connect and pressure crimping 24K pins to copper wire does just that. That and an amplifier only pushes the power that the volume control knob tells it to do, so..... better wires (more conductivity) would be less work for an amplifier as the amplifier would try just as hard to push 300 watts thru bad wire as good wire. Resistance makes heat. As you know, you can neither create nor destroy energy, just change it so, better wire=better sound=better conductivity and a cooler amp. You are right that the sub should have heatsinks and fans.... totally right on there, but better wire and connects can not hurt anything and will give some improvement, maybe small as I said but it WILL be better. No need to respond to this as we don't agree, never will and thats fine with me. I have my now moving mids as proof that it did something. Perhaps you saw no difference cause you did a crappy job at the upgrade?? This message has been edited by iXtreme on 07-05-2001 at 04:34 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Btrigg Posted July 5, 2001 Share Posted July 5, 2001 How bout this? If you think that better cables make speakers sound better, than good for you. I hope you enjoy them that much more. If you think that all wires are virtually the same, then save your money and feel good for not wasting it. But from reading this ixtreme is "suffering" from the placebo effect, and someguy15 is blowing off about the amount of information he knows. I'd like to say that you are talking about the promedia's here. A speaker system costing $300. If you really want good audio, buy some more expensive ones, don't waste time and money trying to get the most out of pc speakers. Hey someguy, it's not worth the effort to prove him wrong. If he thinks there is a difference, then let him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SomeGuy15 Posted July 5, 2001 Share Posted July 5, 2001 quote: On the topic of Large speaker wire internaly. Klipsch's new Reference series is shipping with Monster Wire inside, they say it improves the preformance. I remember you saying in an earlier post that the larger wire wouldnt matter unless you were using high end speakers, amps or something else.. cant remember. Is Klipsch just toying with our minds, or is this for real? For one, I think it is (for real). When it comes it high-end speakers ($2000+) where most of the other major faults like crossover design, driver and enclosure quality have been optimised, then POSSIBLY its worth considering better wires. It will only be of any importance if the speakers exhibit a poor impedence response (ie very reactive). Apparently eletrostatics (like Martin Logans) do improve with better cables due to the large amounts of power required although I've never personally tested them. I cannot honestly say that there will be any difference between standard 16 gauge cables and 16-gauge Monster cable in the Reference series. It seems to me like more of a marketing tactic. Audiophiles are easily fooled. You should have heard some of the things they did to get better sound quality. quote: I've already said THIS IS A WASTE THE MONEY. However this is a product defect and Klipsch SHOULDN'T have ever let this happen. Klipsch should fix it for free. No. I actually means its NOT a waste of money. If you have a loose connection and the speakers or wires get moved around, you'll hear crackling noises as electrical contact is made and lost. You can fix it youself (and lose the warranty) or Klipsch can do it for you. Its a product defect, either due to low quality parts or poor production techniques. It'll remove the crackling (unless you have the pre-amp problem as well) but it won't make the midrange fuller, the high-end smoother or anything like that. quote: their engineers with 50+ years experience You do realise engineers don't get much of a say into these matter. Its more likely Klipsch Marketing had to do with the addition of Monster Cable. quote: these very high end, if not the top end Go listen to the Videologic Sirocco, Crossfires, Pros, Monsoon MM-2000, Diamond HPM-4100 and then tell me the Klipsch Promedia is "top-end". quote: then Lucasfilm specs for THX systems Do you actually have any idea what is required for THX multimedia certification?! No one does because they refuse to release the specifications required for THX certification. For all we know LucasFilms is throwing certifications to anyone just to make a buck. At the start of the THX program, products with THX certification were treated with the upmost respect. Now that THX is creating rubbish like THX Select and THX multimedia, no one is taking them seriously anymore. They've sacrificed their reputation to make more money. quote: Standard speaker wire is not 99% true copper too, it's mixed with tin where as quality OFC has no tin content and therefore better conductivity. To make a connect oxygen and tarnish free requires more than solder, the connect must distort the two metals together (pin and speaker cable) This the only <u>true</u> oxygen free connect and pressure crimping 24K pins to copper wire does just that. And you say I'm talking out of my butt! I have never heard such a poorly made up "theory". The "connect must distort the two cables together". I have never heard such rubbish in my life. Crimping cables to the pins will not make it airproof, thus it'll still oxidise. Soldering the cables directly to the connector ensures a good connection and because the copper is not exposed to oxygen, it won't oxidise. AND THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A TRUE OXYGEN FREE CONNECT. How much do you know about chemistry? Its almost completely impossible to have a completely pure element, especially a reactive one like copper. quote: That and an amplifier only pushes the power that the volume control knob tells it to do, so..... better wires (more conductivity) would be less work for an amplifier as the amplifier would try just as hard to push 300 watts thru bad wire as good wire. Resistance makes heat. As you know, you can neither create nor destroy energy, just change it so, better wire=better sound=better conductivity and a cooler amp. You are right that the sub should have heatsinks and fans.... totally right on there, but better wire and connects can not hurt anything and will give some improvement, maybe small as I said but it WILL be better. No need to respond to this as we don't agree, never will and thats fine with me. I have my now moving mids as proof that it did something. I'm guessing that you lack any knowledge of eletronics or physics because just about everything you just said is wrong. Pure resistance (not impedence) has nothing to do with sound quality. NONE. It'll reduce power to the satellites, but thats it. And since the standard wires have a resistance which is a minute fraction of the satellites, the resistance of the wires can be disregarded. PLUS YOU'RE NOT PUSHING 300 WATTS THROUGH THE WIRES! You won't even hit the specified 60 watts, let alone 300 watts. quote: Perhaps you saw no difference cause you did a crappy job at the upgrade?? So you're saying all blind test with done to stringent procedures are also "crap". quote: this ixtreme is "suffering" from the placebo effect, and someguy15 is blowing off about the amount of information he knows. OK I admit it looks like I am "blowing off about the amount of information I know", but you have to do a little research into these topic to find out the truth. In this "audiophile-world" there is so much crap floating around that many people are simply willing to accept as fact. But I agree with Btrigg, iXtreme is suffering from the placebo effect and is now going through the denial phase. I did exactly the same thing. quote: I'd like to say that you are talking about the promedia's here. A speaker system costing $300. If you really want good audio, buy some more expensive ones, don't waste time and money trying to get the most out of pc speakers. Couldn't agree more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iXtreme Posted July 6, 2001 Author Share Posted July 6, 2001 To clarify, the distortion of metals is simply put. If you had two pieces of sheet metal, say 12" x 12" each and hit them together on end they would cut into each other. If at the point of deepest cut you could pause that you'd find no oxygen. As it has been forced out by the marrige of the two pieces under force. Oh, and I placed my digital multimeter on two pieces of wire, each exactly the same length at 10ft. One wire was my upgrade and the other was none other than the factory Klip wire. I must attest first that both wires were tested to see if they work and both do. The ohm reading test showed 0.1 for the Klips and 0.00 for my upgrade. Negligible yes, but different none the less. I then hooked the right rear on Klip wire and the left rear on my upgrade wire, the right rear had no mid-range speaker movement and the left did. So I took out the Klip wire and put my upgrade back on and restarted the song. (the song was Slow and Low by the B. Boys) Well..... the movement came back on the right rear mid-range. That can't be blamed on faulty wire from Klip as sound does transfer thru them. My diagnosis, the upgrade did some good, no!!?? How can you argue that except to disbelieve. All this is here to do is prove that your theory on no change what-so-ever is not accurate. I may not have all the knowlege you do but it bugs you that a rookie like me had a disagreement with you and was right. Next I guess your going to tell me that line level interconnects don't make any difference like S-Video and digital coaxial RCA's. My video switch box allows me to switch between single RCA video wire to S-Video and although the sharpness stays the same the colors are more vivid and rich. Cables make a difference period. This message has been edited by iXtreme on 07-06-2001 at 02:30 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SomeGuy15 Posted July 6, 2001 Share Posted July 6, 2001 quote: To clarify, the distortion of metals is simply put. If you had two pieces of sheet metal, say 12" x 12" each and hit them together on end they would cut into each other. If at the point of deepest cut you could pause that you'd find no oxygen. As it has been forced out by the marrige of the two pieces under force. So why don't all high-end speaker manufacturers do this instead of soldering? Soldering ensures a long lasting good contacts with no oxidation. quote: Oh, and I placed my digital multimeter on two pieces of wire, each exactly the same length at 10ft. One wire was my upgrade and the other was none other than the factory Klip wire. I must attest first that both wires were tested to see if they work and both do. The ohm reading test showed 0.1 for the Klips and 0.00 for my upgrade. Negligible yes, but different none the less. You do realise most digital multimeters aren't exactly accurate and generally have an error of 1%. Also I haven't seen many multimeters capable of measuring resistances below 1 ohm. Which model? quote: I then hooked the right rear on Klip wire and the left rear on my upgrade wire, the right rear had no mid-range speaker movement and the left did. So I took out the Klip wire and put my upgrade back on and restarted the song. (the song was Slow and Low by the B. Boys) Well..... the movement came back on the right rear mid-range. That can't be blamed on faulty wire from Klip as sound does transfer thru them. My diagnosis, the upgrade did some good, no!!?? How can you argue that except to disbelieve. All this is here to do is prove that your theory on no change what-so-ever is not accurate. I may not have all the knowlege you do but it bugs you that a rookie like me had a disagreement with you and was right. RESISTANCE HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS. Resistance is frequency independent, any eletronics lecturer can tell you this. The resistance of the wire cannot change the character of the sound. Like I said before, when I first bought my cables and hooked it all up, I too thought the mids were smoother and more fluidic. In fact I was utterly convinced I could hear a difference. But now after I have examined the facts and done much more exhaustive testing, it revealed that I was merely imagining the improvement. This is the placebo effect and it is more "powerful" than you think. quote: Next I guess your going to tell me that line level interconnects don't make any difference like S-Video and digital coaxial RCA's. My video switch box allows me to switch between single RCA video wire to S-Video and although the sharpness stays the same the colors are more vivid and rich. Cables make a difference period. Don't even get me started on interconnects. Even more people dispute the differences interconnects can make. I have a $115 0.8m Telfon-coated silver-plated 6N-OFC interconnect which made no noticeable difference in my $6K hifi. Please explain how digital coaxial RCAs can change the sound quality. You're passing logic 1s and 0s. I'd love to hear your "theories" on how changing digital cables can make the mids smoother. RCA composite and S-video is a completely different story. A composite RCA connection matrixes the luminence (brightness) and chroma (colour) signals into one. These have to be seperated at the other end, generally with a loss of quality. S-Video on the other hand carries the luminence and chroma signals seperately. In fact with careful inspection, you'd realise a s-video connection will give you sharper images. This is especially evident on the borders of different colours. With test images, it becomes even more apparent as moire patterns appear with the composite connection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rol1 Posted July 6, 2001 Share Posted July 6, 2001 If you think changing the wires to a 1/8" mono-plug is making a difference, why don't you open your satalites, remove the mini-jack and wires to the cross-over, and replace them with a few inches of the O-free wire, and a decent set of 3-way speaker terminals, then sillicon-up the hole then you can spend $60 on real Monstercables. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DwK Posted July 6, 2001 Share Posted July 6, 2001 To prove someone wrong (so much being said, this has to prove someone wrong) The Monster Cable used in the new Klipsch Reference line uses one thing (cant remember the name ) but it stops "time smearing" by slowing down the High Frequencies so all the frequencies reach you at the same time. Like building tilted Speaker boxes, but... using... special wire instead..... Having badass Monster Cable on the Pro Medias, with upgraded hook ups, will probobly only offer alittle improvement in sound, due to less deteriation of sound through the wire, the connectors. And the anti "time smearing" stuff. It would also lower the resistance some allowing the spakers to play louder with less power. (Not a BIG difference.. we're talking fairly smalls>. But when you get done you have probobly spent 100 + bucks. Not worth it In my opinion. Just save up and get some good speakers if its that big of a deal to you. ------------------ Living Room: Yamaha Natural Sound A-500 Stereo Amplifier 2 Klipsch Heresys on A switch 2 Fisher STV-873 on B switch My Room: Klipsch Pro Medias 2 Fisher Surrounds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SomeGuy15 Posted July 6, 2001 Share Posted July 6, 2001 quote: Originally posted by DwK: To prove someone wrong (so much being said, this has to prove someone wrong) The Monster Cable used in the new Klipsch Reference line uses one thing (cant remember the name ) but it stops "time smearing" by slowing down the High Frequencies so all the frequencies reach you at the same time. Like building tilted Speaker boxes, but... using... special wire instead..... Having badass Monster Cable on the Pro Medias, with upgraded hook ups, will probobly only offer alittle improvement in sound, due to less deteriation of sound through the wire, the connectors. And the anti "time smearing" stuff. It would also lower the resistance some allowing the spakers to play louder with less power. (Not a BIG difference.. we're talking fairly small s>. This is what I'm talking about. There's a lot of trash which we call Marketing material. This "time smearing" is due to the reactive impedences only due to the low frequencies. Since the impedences are already very small, even the poorest cable would only introduce a maximum phase shift of 5 degrees. 5 degrees is completely INSIGNIFICANT compared the the phase shift introduce by the crossover and the driver configuration. All that "super cable" is pointless and its only purpose is to fool the public into thinking "only the best materials have been used". quote: But when you get done you have probobly spent 100 + bucks.Not worth it In my opinion. Just save up and get some good speakers if its that big of a deal to you. Exactly. If you're gonna to spend an extra $100 "upgrading" the wires on your Promedias, you'd might as well go with something better in the first place. Even if there was any significant difference, do you really think the "upgraded" Promedias could sound as good as the "standard" Crossfires?! You're paying just as much for either setups. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beday00 Posted July 7, 2001 Share Posted July 7, 2001 i just want to say that cables can make a difference. in the case of the promedias it may not but the braided cat5 cables reduce the static/white noise heard on speakers. it has to do with interference patters, magnetic fields and how they cancel each other out to make really nice cables. also, you can get insulation material that also aids in cutting down on interference. just my two cents though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DwK Posted July 8, 2001 Share Posted July 8, 2001 To end this: There will be SOME kind of Improvment with Better wires on the Pro Medias. But the money it would cost.. and the fact that it voids the warenty.. its just Ignorant. Pro Medias are Computer Speakers, not high end HT speakers. You got a complete setup for about 300$.. what do you expect? The "time smearing" thing.. I found out for the cable to actualy make a difference.. a signal will have to have been sent from here to the moon. But the improved wires on the Reference line does improve it some. Pro Medias are Computer Speakers, NOT high end HT speakers. You got a complete system for 300$ what do you expect? I still wanna know how to talk out of my butt..... ------------------ Living Room: Yamaha Natural Sound A-500 Stereo Amplifier 2 Klipsch Heresys on A switch 2 Fisher STV-873 on B switch My Room: Klipsch Pro Medias 2 Fisher Surrounds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porno Pete Posted July 8, 2001 Share Posted July 8, 2001 I still wanna know how to talk out of my butt..... Ask George Bush Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SomeGuy15 Posted July 8, 2001 Share Posted July 8, 2001 Cat5 cables are only really necessary for low-power cables such as interconnects and when there is large amounts of interference. Any theoretical advantage of Cat5 cables is barely (if at all) noticable. As for speaker cables, most people don't bother with shielding due to the high power going through them. quote: There will be SOME kind of Improvment with Better wires on the Pro Medias. Yeah, NOT! There are so many other flaws with such a cheap speaker no amount of super wires will make it sound better. quote: The "time smearing" thing.. I found out for the cable to actualy make a difference.. a signal will have to have been sent from here to the moon. But the improved wires on the Reference line does improve it some. Um since the cables aren't quite a zillion miles long, how did you come to the conclusion that the Monster cables will improve the sound of the Reference speakers? Honestly I think the Reference line will sound just the same with standard cables. Instead of spending $300 on the Promedias and an extra $100 on cable upgrades why don't u just get the Crossfires?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iXtreme Posted July 8, 2001 Author Share Posted July 8, 2001 TeeHee, As we all can see... the ever intelligent someguy has been telling us that cables are not important, but that buying better speakers like the crossfires are the answer. Here is a quote from the review/manual for the crossfires. The manual is very very uninformative but here goes: ------------------------------------------------------- The speaker wire that is included is first quality. Some other manufacturers forget to include low resistance wires. A high resistance can result in a loss of audio quality. The relative resistance of the given lengths of wire (8m sections for the rear channels and 2m for the sub and 2 front channels) are: 8m (26.6ft) : 1.95 Ohms x 2 pieces 2m (6.6ft) : 0.5 Ohms x 3 pieces All of the dual RCA phono to 1/8" jack connectors are gold plated for minimal interference. Gold has a an extremely low temperature coefficient of 0.0034 while copper has a temperature coefficient of 0.00393. All coefficients are taken at 20C. Some people cry if they do not have digital outputs. For a loosely engineered speaker system digital outputs would be beneficial. For impeccably engineered products, like the Sirocco Crossfire, digital outputs are something that you do not need as the degradation of audio quality is minimal through the use of premium audio connectors and low resistance speaker cables. ------------------------------------------------------- HeHeHe, maybe you should go tell them they are wrong too. All these stupid A** manufacturers and speaker cable companies. Who woulda thought you'd out smart em' all. You may think that this is just a review and the reviewers are wrong... THEN my un-informed friend... WHY do they package special wiring if it really dosen't matter what is being used as long as it's not defective? Here is the url if you'd like to re read what I have posted. Man I hate being so right all the time http://www.bxboards.com/siroccocrossfire.shtml This message has been edited by iXtreme on 07-08-2001 at 11:47 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mental Atrophy Posted July 9, 2001 Share Posted July 9, 2001 you stupid ****er... ever stop to think that they might have some marketing hype in their speaker advertisement? how about if you show something like that from an unbiased source? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iXtreme Posted July 9, 2001 Author Share Posted July 9, 2001 You missed my point totally, it easily 747'd you. He was claming that wires have no effect, and to go buy quality speakers like the videologic's if you want a smoother response overall. My point was that HIS claimed better speakers use "better" than normal wires too, arn't these a product he said was useless unless you had some really high end HT speakers or original defective wires? If they were not really needed then why god, oh why do they ship with these. And sirroccos are by no means true HT quality so they too would be cheap speakers no? I can see what the problem is now though, ANYONE upset about the wire-mod either (a)did it wrong, or (b)spent way too much money to make the semi transparent improvement worth it. I however fall under neither of these as I am a shrewd dealer in the electronics store No really.... I got my Pro's for an astounding $345.46 CD dollars taxes in ($226.84 US) after the buffalo bucks purchase(too long a story for here) and my interconnects at 24K for pins and 16ga. OFC cabling for under $10 Canadian. I'd respend all of it in a second. As well I have a few audio installers who could care less about how much was spent as they are paid hourly for installs only who say they also know of the benefits of better connects. Take a peek at most if not all sub boxes, tower speakers and any other high power audio product... they all have big connectors and they are all gold plated...... maybe there is something there that you refuse to see. This message has been edited by iXtreme on 07-09-2001 at 02:05 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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