popbumper Posted May 11, 2004 Share Posted May 11, 2004 Wow....anyone else doing this? Until last night, I was in the process of putting together a suitable "stand" around my TV that would hold a Heresy II (I just picked up a pair). My fronts are Forte's. After finishing the stand, I hooked it up and sat down to listen. Oh my. The only word that describes this is BRIGHT, and I mean BRIGHT, capitalized! I have never had occasion to turn DOWN a center speaker so far (-4dB from the L&R), and still feel like I am being blown away. This speaker is so overpowering, that everything else in the system becomes drowned, not complemented. While this may seem like a criticism of the speaker, it is not. I had also used the Heresy II's as surrounds, and they were WONDERFUL. I just don't think, at least for my purposes, that the speaker makes a good center channel. It's a bit too much "in your face", and really disrupted the balance of my system. For the time being, I will have to go back to a KG2 for the center channel - not as CRISP as the Heresy II, or even the Forte, but a lot more tolerable. This has been a really good exercise for me; I am still very happy I got the Heresy's, but I think they are still best as surrounds. The center will have to ultimately be an Academy, another Forte, or a custom build. Of course, your mileage may vary. Popbumper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCOOTERDOG Posted May 11, 2004 Share Posted May 11, 2004 Yes a custom build is the way to go considering what acadamy's are going for these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironwoods Posted May 11, 2004 Share Posted May 11, 2004 Hi, what is the ohm rating of your Heresy, compared to the Forte's? 4 dB's down is not all that much - 3dB is supposedly the minimum difference our ears can detect. What pre/pro/rec are you running? Do you even need to use a sub? If yes, how have you sized the Fortes? I think you might be wowed by a center that can actually keep up with your mains, as the KG2 must have been running balls out to keep up with the Forte's. I have a KV-3 paired with 4 ohm Heresy II's, and seems to integrate pretty well, but I've wondered how a Heresy center would sound. Now I don't know what to think, but you have a Heresy collecting dust?.... hmmmm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popbumper Posted May 11, 2004 Author Share Posted May 11, 2004 Ironwoods: 1) I do not know the ohm rating of the Heresy's. I guess I am not doing good homework here - I just got them and did not really look. I can understand though why you asked! 2) Running an HK AVR430 seven channel receiver (only using 5.1 currently) - 65W/ch 3) Yes, I am using a sub - SVS 20-39 PCi 4) I use the Forte's set as small, crossed over at 60 Hz. I checked the transition the other night with the AVIA disk, it's pretty seamless. 5) Actually, the KG2 did a very nice job in the center, but was slightly "duller" in timbre match to the Forte's. Didn't seem to have a tough time keeping up, though, and was very balanced in the front. I just thought the Heresy would do a better job. 6) I do have two Heresy II's, the other one is slated for center rear channel. Thanks for the questions/help. Popbumper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.4knee Posted May 11, 2004 Share Posted May 11, 2004 The HII's are 8 ohms nominal impedance. They are listed, as 4 ohm on the speaker but that is 4 ohm minimum impedance. I just conferred with Trey Cannon on this he said they consider them to be 8-ohm impedance nominal. Have you tried you Forte's set to large, just an idea. I would suggest try turning down you HII's a little more. Also what is your distance to your mains vs to your center? I am going to use an HII for a center b/t two La Scala's. I can see where you may feel they are pretty powerful. I was surprised how well they kept up with my La Scala's about a -4 to -5.5 db difference at louder volumes although that was a ballpark figure used to test them active with music playing and my ears to say when they were comparable. I am in the process of moving my rig to another room. So I did not set up with a disk and SPL meter when I do I will get back to you. Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popbumper Posted May 11, 2004 Author Share Posted May 11, 2004 J.4Knee: As a matter of fact, I set the Forte's to large last night (trying something different), and it did not make a big difference. Yup, I will probably turn the Heresy down some more. I would have to say the Heresy are probably about 1.5 - 2 feet closer than the Forte's; I am trying to remember what I measured these at - I THINK the L&R are a 9 feet, the center is at 7. A lot of things to consider, from what everyone is telling me here! Popbumper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eq_shadimar Posted May 11, 2004 Share Posted May 11, 2004 Yeah I used to have a HIP-II as a center untill I upgraded but I didn't have the issues you are describing. Let me know if you want to try it in your system as I am not using it currently. I also have some Heresy I's that you can try too. I would be more than happy to come over and offer a second opinion as well. Also don't worry about what the receiver dB setting is at. As long as the SPL meter is reading the same across all of the speakers during the test tone everything should come out balanced. Your settings differences are probably due to different sensitivity ratings and wire lengths more than anything else. Laters, Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hwatkins Posted May 11, 2004 Share Posted May 11, 2004 Unfortunately I cannot speak to the Forte and Heresy timbre matching. I can say that you experience doesn't match mine when I placed a heresy (as a test - I eventually modified a Heresy for my center) as a center in an all heresy setup. I did find that if I did not keep the center and L/R HF speakers on the same vertical plane I had a noticeable difference. When they were within 6 -12" of the same plane things were marvelous. You may be seeing a timbre match that can't be resolved, although I would think the HII would be a less noticable difference. Lastly, attentuation isn't all that bad, so give it a try. Once you tone them down with the reciever it may be just fine. I know my room causes some hard to believe situations (Example - my left side Heresy had to be leveled at -5db for all to work out in my room). Good Luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popbumper Posted May 11, 2004 Author Share Posted May 11, 2004 Henry: Thanks for the comments! As far as "vertical plane", are you referring to "sameness" of the speaker fronts, or, are you referring to the sameness of the plane where the tweeters sit (I suppose this would be "horizontal")? Yes, I plan to tweak it down a bit more, and see if there is improvement. I also plan to get the Forte's HIGHER UP (closer to the Heresy) before I give up on it altogether. Good story on your room settings. It's NO DOUBT that each and every environment has it's own particular gains/losses, and you sometimes have to adjust for a "phantom" issue. It's all science, regardless. Great SOUNDING science! Popbumper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eq_shadimar Posted May 11, 2004 Share Posted May 11, 2004 Just some additional thoughts on this. First I have never directly compared a Heresy I to a Heresy II. My Heresy II is a ported industrial model...but it did timbre match fine with the Cornwall I's. Also I have directly compared Cornwall I and Cornwall II's. There was not a "in your face" noticable difference with these either. Thinking outside the box here...perhaps there is something wrong with the tweeters in the Forte's? Also you don't mention if you have used a SPL meter to balance everything. The balancing of the speakers is something that cannot be done by ear. Laters, Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popbumper Posted May 11, 2004 Author Share Posted May 11, 2004 Yes, everything is balanced with the "auto-set" feature of the receiver. I suppose it would be a better idea to actually go BUY an SPL meter and use it in conjunction with the AVIA disk. OK - where to find a meter? I have heard Rat Shack? Popbumper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.4knee Posted May 11, 2004 Share Posted May 11, 2004 Yes definitely get a SPL meter. The Radio Shack versions work fine. Some prefer the analog I use the digital. It makes a huge difference when you are done. Can you move you HII back some? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popbumper Posted May 11, 2004 Author Share Posted May 11, 2004 J.4Knee: It's off to Rat Shack I go (I'm gonna take a break and head there as soon as I post this - there is one right around the corner). Yes, I CAN move the speaker back - I think I will. You know, I WOULD really like to tweak this thing and "make it work" - the Heresy II is undoubtedly better than the KG2!! Popbumper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eq_shadimar Posted May 11, 2004 Share Posted May 11, 2004 Ah yes the auto set feature is useful but you will need a meter to nail it. I don't bother using the EZ-Set feature anymore. Mainly because it does not use the entire signal chain. Also the EZ-Set will not get you anywhere close on LFE/Subwoofer calibration. Yes the Radio Shack ANALOG meter is perferred. I also have one of those you can borrow (and a tripod very important piece too) if you want Laters, Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hwatkins Posted May 11, 2004 Share Posted May 11, 2004 ---------------- On 5/11/2004 2:13:32 PM popbumper wrote: Henry: Thanks for the comments! As far as "vertical plane", are you referring to "sameness" of the speaker fronts, or, are you referring to the sameness of the plane where the tweeters sit (I suppose this would be "horizontal")? Popbumper ---------------- Duh - shame on me - yes, I meant that the HF speakers (tweeter and mid) need to be on the same HORIZONAL plane - that is at the same level (thus they should be nearly the same height -my vertical dysfunction). I did not find this to be an issue with the woofer. That probably should make sense - the HF is much more directional than the LF. As to pushing the center back - My Denon has a distance delay capability that seems to work very well if you want to keep in in place - I am sure the HK has something similar. Lastly - if you haven't already - go get that rat shack meter - it is very much a difference when set with a meter. I like the digital as well, but analog can give a truer look at fluctuations. The digital works 2 jobs for me - at home and I use it to set up for a Doctor friend's band when they play their more important gigs (once a roady - always a roady). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymd Posted May 11, 2004 Share Posted May 11, 2004 Very strange! I had the opposite experience with my Heresy I. I thought it was too muffled, not bright enough as a center along with my cornwall fronts. I ended up with an academy which I'm thrilled with. I wonder if the II vs the I could be an issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avman Posted May 11, 2004 Share Posted May 11, 2004 ---------------- On 5/11/2004 2:28:08 PM popbumper wrote: Yes, everything is balanced with the "auto-set" feature of the receiver. I suppose it would be a better idea to actually go BUY an SPL meter and use it in conjunction with the AVIA disk. OK - where to find a meter? I have heard Rat Shack? Popbumper ---------------- yes, go to rat shack and get the ANALOG spl meter. i am planning on trying a new yamaha ss receiver w/YPAO auto-calibrate system on my 2-cornwall/3-heresy surround 5.1 setup in the living room. it is a rather acoustically 'live' room w/lots of hard surfaces,and not especially large(smaller than the ht room which is 12'w x 23'd)HOWEVER it does have an open back wall,which helps it sound not as 'small'. so in this rather challenging acoustic room,i am stuffing w/all those horns(10 of 'em)-2-15's and 3-12's worth of woofer...it should be interesting avman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popbumper Posted May 11, 2004 Author Share Posted May 11, 2004 Henry: Thanks for the clarification! OK, I guess I really need to do a few things then: 1) Get the tweets on the same horizontal plane (roughly). I will need to BOOST my Forte's up a bit! 2) I will move the speaker back some. Funny part - I was going to mount it to the wall behind the TV, and thought, "nah, I need it up close". So, I spend $150 in 1" pipe pieces and construct this monstrosity of a frame around the TV so it will hold the Heresy. Looks like I'm stuck with it, I'll make other arrangements....don't want to waste the money.... 3) Just picked up a Radio Shack SPL meter - it's the digital one. Plan to look at this tuff more in depth tonite. Thanks again! Popbumper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hwatkins Posted May 11, 2004 Share Posted May 11, 2004 ---------------- On 5/11/2004 3:07:00 PM garymd wrote: Very strange! I had the opposite experience with my Heresy I. I thought it was too muffled, not bright enough as a center along with my cornwall fronts. I ended up with an academy which I'm thrilled with. I wonder if the II vs the I could be an issue. ---------------- Hello Gary - I have both the Is and IIs in my set up and the I is definitely (not by much, but hearable) a bit brighter than the II - I have considered the old Tap mod to attenuate to see if it makes a difference, but the ones I would mod are in the ceiling. Bear in mind I do not notice the difference unless I am looking for it, otherwise the match is good. Do you think the muffle is coming from the different Xover to the mid for the Cornwall (I think that is true)? I had the same thoughts when I had a couple of Heresy between Khorns for fun. Or even more so the different lens could be a culprit. You would expect some similarities as you moved up in freqs, except in the mids you will have more efficiency (another possible culprit). I would probably hear the same as you and end up with a DIY Cornwall for the center. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the plummer Posted May 11, 2004 Share Posted May 11, 2004 Hey Popbumper: Since no one has made the offer, I have a pristine Academy, and I would be willing to part with it, for say,,,,,,,,a Heresy II or two. The Plummer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.