gullahisland Posted May 14, 2004 Share Posted May 14, 2004 Hey guys, I have a question about the K-horns that I just bought. I've noticed that they seem to have FAR LESS high-frequency response than the Belles that I'm babysitting. I put my ear up to each one and they're both functioning, but they just seem a little "polite" and not nearly as airy and extended as the Belles. Since they both use the same tweeter, I would expect them to sound similar. The only difference between the two is that the Belles have AB networks and the K-horns have AA. Considering that BOTH tweeters are working but BOTH of them are also very quiet/muffled, I began to wonder if it was something with the crossover. I just find it so unlikely that both crossovers would have the same problem. In addition, it seems unusual that both tweeters would have the same problem. So what do you think? Do blown tweeters still make sound? I've read through as many "tweeter" threads as I could, but it seems that EVERY person who complained about blown tweeters stated that they were SILENT. Any ideas? I should also mention that I'm NOT very handy so anything that requires me to do any soldering is out of the question. I appreciate your collective assistance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEC Posted May 14, 2004 Share Posted May 14, 2004 I believe I would first try loosening and then retightening all of the screws on the terminal strips on the AA crossovers to see it that makes any difference or not. That is quick and easy and may help some. Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pierceb Posted May 14, 2004 Share Posted May 14, 2004 I have the exact same question, and would like to hear some opinions on the matter. My 1976 Khorns sound kind of flat to me compared to my 1975 Corns and RF-7's, with each speaker driven by same amplification (cheap SS). All drivers work and I have already loosened and re-tightend all connections on the Khorns. I expected a bit more from my Khorns. I was suspecting that my AA x-overs may need upgrading, and/or the magnets might need to be recharged. Or possibly the room might have some (significant) negative effect. (???) -PB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEC Posted May 14, 2004 Share Posted May 14, 2004 PB It could be either or both of the conditions you mention. I haven't personally found a K-77 that needed recharging but they do lose some charge over time. I would more suspect that the crossovers have had some capacitors change value. In fact, that was indeed the case on my 1979 Lascalas. The tweeter was down about 10 db from where it should have been because of the old caps. Bob Crites Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3dzapper Posted May 14, 2004 Share Posted May 14, 2004 Try this easy mod to the AA network: photo by Al K See below for discussion: http://forums.klipsch.com/idealbb/view.asp?topicID=41802 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcdeath1 Posted May 15, 2004 Share Posted May 15, 2004 I feel that I am experiencing the same thing as you.Seems like my Forte's have much more prevalent highs.I was told that the crossovers in my Khorns need some attention. This will be my next move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pierceb Posted May 15, 2004 Share Posted May 15, 2004 Thanks Bob/Rick, lots to chew on in that thread! A good read. Like I thought, it appears that I will need to do some x-over upgrades. It doesn't look to hard, I just need to find the time (and some caps). I guess I expected stock K-horns to be a little more lively. They probably are in a different room. BTW Rick...do I see a steel screw in the tweeter inductor in that picture you posted? Should it be removed? Or am I missing something. -PB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoggy Posted May 15, 2004 Share Posted May 15, 2004 Yes the screw should be removed. Use a little silicone to reattach the conductor. hoggy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoggy Posted May 15, 2004 Share Posted May 15, 2004 Just in case you have the older AA's as I do here's where you attach the cap. hoggy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted May 15, 2004 Share Posted May 15, 2004 Be sure to fix your initial problem before doing any crossover mods. I have Type AA xovers and the tweeter is not "polite". The Aa tweeter section is somewhat lossy, and does lose about 3 dB of output, on purpose. It is is working properly, you'll get plenty of highs. First swap a tweeter in from the Belles (Cornwalls) and see what happens. It that doesn't do it, put one Type AB in your K-horns (it won't hurt, but might not sound too good). One of those swaps will ID the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q-Man Posted May 15, 2004 Share Posted May 15, 2004 I agree with John on this one. I keep an extra pair of tweeters on hand so I can swap them around whan I think that I have a problem. It helps me to find the source of the problem. Now that Klipsch has changed it's midrange and tweeters in the new Klipschorns, LaScalas, and Belles it would be a good idea for all of you to shop around for extra K-77 and K-55 drivers. It's nice to have a pair ready to pop in while you repair the bad one. I've had tweeters about 3db down do to oxidized wire, and poor connections. Loose diaphragm wires, and bad diaphragms. Having spare parts could save you from having to do the $1,200.00 upgrade from Klipsch if a driver goes bad on you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pierceb Posted May 15, 2004 Share Posted May 15, 2004 Makes sense to be John/Qman, I didn't really want to start taking my speakers apart (lazy, no time right now), but I do agree the swap should be tried before making x-over mods. Each tweeter sounds down about the same amount (this has not been verified by any testing), so I didn't think it was a driver problem. I really think it is more of a room/x-over issue that I'm dealing with. My corns and RF-7's sound much more alive in the same room (albeit they are not in the corners), driven by the same electronics. Good recpmmendation about acquiring some spare K77 and K55's, especially since I now have two pairs of speakers that may need them. Thanks. -PB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gullahisland Posted May 15, 2004 Author Share Posted May 15, 2004 Well - this just gets more interesting. My problem is exactly the same as Pierceb's and that is the reason that I doubted that BOTH tweeters or BOTH crossovers could be having problems. But now I'm not so sure. You see...I have a second set of K-horns (one will be for sale shortly). Both are '77 models with AA crossovers. The rosewood pair that I just acquired were brought in last night and they sound PERFECT! It's all there. The crisp, airy treble that the Belles display but even better. So now I'm stumped. The K-horns are identical (exept for finish) so it can't be an inherent trait with this particular model. In fact, I find it interesting that the crossovers on the rosewood pair (which sound perfect) have some rust and don't look as nice as the birch pair which sound "shelved down". This makes me believe that there is something going on with the tweeters rather than the crossovers - all else being equal. I'll try swapping one of the tweeters and see what happens. Out of curiosity - Is it just a matter of unscrewing the tweeter and unplugging the wires or do I actually need to do some soldering? I figure it's better to ask BEFORE I start disassembling my speakers! Thanks, Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gullahisland Posted May 15, 2004 Author Share Posted May 15, 2004 ---------------- On 5/15/2004 12:25:45 AM mcdeath1 wrote: I feel that I am experiencing the same thing as you.Seems like my Forte's have much more prevalent highs.I was told that the crossovers in my Khorns need some attention. This will be my next move. ---------------- Hey Mcdeath - That's pretty interesting. Out of curiosity - what year are your K-horns. If memory serves correctly, they were about the same vintage as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcdeath1 Posted May 16, 2004 Share Posted May 16, 2004 They were made in '74,type AA crossovers.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bdc Posted May 19, 2004 Share Posted May 19, 2004 So gullahisland, did you ever try swapping the tweeters and/or crossovers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gullahisland Posted May 19, 2004 Author Share Posted May 19, 2004 ---------------- On 5/19/2004 6:01:43 PM bdc wrote: So gullahisland, did you ever try swapping the tweeters and/or crossovers? ---------------- No. I haven't swapped it out yet. I never received an answer regarding whether or not I'd have to do any soldering. I'm not exactly "handy" when it comes to that stuff. I can say that the rosewood pair that I just picked up sound just like the Belles - nice and airy. If it's just a matter of unplugging the wires and unscrewing the tweeter then I'm good. Much else beyond that and I'm hosed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q-Man Posted May 19, 2004 Share Posted May 19, 2004 I don't remember having to desolder the tweeter connectors. The tweeters have a female disconnect and the wire going to the tweeter has a male disconnect. The connectors look just like the ones used on the midrange driver. The midrange conectors are soldered. The hard part is unscrewing the tweeter. You need a small ( maybe 2 1/2") swrew driver to reach in there. If it is soldered then have someone hold the tip of the iron on the conectors while you hold the tweeter connector still with a pair of needle nose pliers. Then grab the connector on the wire side and keep a steady pulling preasure on it untill it pulls off. This way it will come off as soon as the solder gives loose and you won't over heat the tweeter connector. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEC Posted May 19, 2004 Share Posted May 19, 2004 If the wires are soldered to the tweeter connection, you can just disconnect the other end of the wires from the screw connection at the crossover. Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WMcD Posted May 19, 2004 Share Posted May 19, 2004 It is my understanding that the tweeter has push on connectors. But I'm bowled over by BEC's wisdom. Very good. I don't debate all that others have suggested. And I've measurered some T-35s which don't go up very much above 11 kHz. Perhaps the same is true of the K-77 samples we have. I wonder though whether a hotter treble in the Belle might be due to the midrange, rather than the tweeter. A lot of what we perceive as the high end may be in the upper registers of the mid. Gil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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