jdm56 Posted May 23, 2004 Share Posted May 23, 2004 ...so I've got a really novel idea. I say, let's not let the people who make bad sounding CD's (or DVD-A's or SACD's) make any more. Ever. We'll just let the folks who make good sounding ones make more. Maybe a three strikes and yer out deal. See, I bought Dwight Yoakum's latest crappy sounding CD, "Population: Me", and my gosh I kid you not, I had to quit listening half way through the second track. It was that bad. It sounded like AM radio minus the background noise. No highs, no lows, a dynamic range of maybe half a decibel. Drums that sound like toys...in the next room. No air. Everything sounds two-dimensional and thin. Cardboard. Now why, in 2004 do so many country, rock and pop recordings sound like this? And is it just me, or do jazz recordings almost never sound less than good? Do people making pop music just assume that since so many folks listen on boomboxes, PC's, and walkmans, that quality just doesn't matter? Are they too stoned to know what they're doing? Do they even listen to this stuff before they put it on the shelves? GEEZ!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenratboy Posted May 23, 2004 Share Posted May 23, 2004 Thats one reason I listen to some of the electronic and ambient music I do. They are preformed, produced, and in many cases, RECORDED by the artist, along with post processing and making it to the CD sounding like they want. Here is a guy that probably cares about recording he music well: http://www.robertrich.com/rrframeset.html Same with people like Steve Roach. There are many others that take pride in good recordings. It is refreshing to put in a CD with no background noise, clean bass, no over-EQ's effects, etc. and just get 'transported" Top 40 stuff seems to blow hard, which is funny because they are doing this stuff in nice studio's. It seems the people that record in their garage with $10k in gear can beat million dollar studio's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMcGoo Posted May 23, 2004 Share Posted May 23, 2004 Many recently recorded CDs have a very narrow dynamic range due to digital compression used in mastering the CD. This is done so that the CD will sound good in cars and on boom boxes. It helps sell the music to ordinary folks and kills it for serious listeners with good equipment. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoggy Posted May 23, 2004 Share Posted May 23, 2004 Wish these companies would offer these cd's etc in 2 variations saying this one sounds good with top quaility gear and this one sounds good with junk stuff. hehehe Now that would be good. Such as a letter system. A= home gear B= average auto/cheaper players etc. hoggy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoggy Posted May 23, 2004 Share Posted May 23, 2004 Also seems to me back in the old days some record stores (LPs only than) would play a LP for you on the gear they had at the store so we could listen before we bought. Some things do change and not always for the better. hoggy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenratboy Posted May 23, 2004 Share Posted May 23, 2004 ---------------- On 5/23/2004 8:49:08 PM MrMcGoo wrote: Many recently recorded CDs have a very narrow dynamic range due to digital compression used in mastering the CD. This is done so that the CD will sound good in cars and on boom boxes. It helps sell the music to ordinary folks and kills it for serious listeners with good equipment. Bill ---------------- So, what logic is used to master a CD to people that do NOT know sound quality? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMcGoo Posted May 23, 2004 Share Posted May 23, 2004 Most folks do not have good sound systems. Many folks think Bo$e sounds good. These same folks like the digital compression that is so favored by the big corporations that produce CDs. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdm56 Posted May 24, 2004 Author Share Posted May 24, 2004 Of dourse, compression has been used for decades, and in the right hands, with the right music CAN produce BETTER sound, but so much of what I'm hearing is just lifeless; dry, thin, flat, dull, etc etc. It just infuriates me, especially considering the less than generous refund policy of most retailers. Usually, if the CD has been opened, they will not refund, only defective exchange - like I'd want another one that sounds just as bad. It just seems to me that anyone in the position of making professional music recordings has no excuse for delivering anything less than good sound. All they have to do is listen to the bloody thing before they send it off to be mastered, right? Geez, go out and bring some folks in off the street to listen to it. Get some objective opinions. Just quit dumping this "overpriced at any price" junk on us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffinator Posted May 24, 2004 Share Posted May 24, 2004 ---------------- On 5/23/2004 8:49:08 PM MrMcGoo wrote: Many recently recorded CDs have a very narrow dynamic range due to digital compression used in mastering the CD. This is done so that the CD will sound good in cars and on boom boxes. It helps sell the music to ordinary folks and kills it for serious listeners with good equipment. Bill ---------------- OK, since I work in this field as a freelance mastering engineer, let me correct some of your misconceptions. 1) Digital limiting and multiband compression go into squashing the dynamics out of a CD. This isn't done for the sake of sounding good, it's done for the sake of making sure it's the loudest song on the radio. No one had any trouble making a song sound great on a variety of output sources before the loudness wars began in the mid-90's. 2) It doesn't sell the music to anyone. Lotta psychological studies in recent years have revealed that this process of destroying dynamic range actually has the same effect as typing in all caps for several paragraphs - the brain instinctively tunes out the information presented. So once again the record companies are idiots chasing the wrong concepts to try and increase their profit margin... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheltie dave Posted May 24, 2004 Share Posted May 24, 2004 Back in the day when I was music director and dj at a radio station, I was getting into Traffic. I though "Low Spark of High Heeled Boys" was a great song, until I played it for the first time on air...and it sounded like a minute of dead air, followed by the characteristic "pumping" as the limiter was forced to compress the now too hot signal. Having songs with predictable SPL and dynamic range levels is a boon to broadcasters - and a bane to us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffinator Posted May 24, 2004 Share Posted May 24, 2004 ---------------- On 5/24/2004 7:50:56 AM sheltie dave wrote: Back in the day when I was music director and dj at a radio station, I was getting into Traffic. I though "Low Spark of High Heeled Boys" was a great song, until I played it for the first time on air...and it sounded like a minute of dead air, followed by the characteristic "pumping" as the limiter was forced to compress the now too hot signal. Having songs with predictable SPL and dynamic range levels is a boon to broadcasters - and a bane to us. ---------------- Once again, I gotta step up and adjust your perceptions. Radio people are all up in arms about the new no-dynamics material on the market. Seems that the already-crushed-to-death mixes slamming into the radio station's proprietary chain of limiters, equalizers, and other funky electronics is creating an absolute mess of the final signal, and forcing the stations to completely retool their equipment in order to compensate. They are NOT happy about this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenratboy Posted May 24, 2004 Share Posted May 24, 2004 ---------------- On 5/24/2004 7:50:56 AM sheltie dave wrote: Back in the day when I was music director and dj at a radio station, I was getting into Traffic. I though "Low Spark of High Heeled Boys" was a great song, until I played it for the first time on air...and it sounded like a minute of dead air, followed by the characteristic "pumping" as the limiter was forced to compress the now too hot signal. Having songs with predictable SPL and dynamic range levels is a boon to broadcasters - and a bane to us. ---------------- You should of kickud on a few more tubes, hoped the FCC wasn't listening, and blown everyone away Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dodger Posted May 24, 2004 Share Posted May 24, 2004 Hello: It's similar to either buying a stereo or going to a Rock Concert. The Stereo System the Salesclerk wants you to buy will be a little louder. The ending songs of The Rock Concert will be louder. Studies have shown that for a short time a louder system will sound better. More Bass, More Treble, the mids can be blurred but this only for the short time. Now, radio stations want you to listen. As you scan, you most likely will stop at the louder for a bit longer. Thus we must compress the music - why bother with a costly compressed signal? Also CD Company A sees incresd sales in CD Company B due to compression. Guess what? Company A starts compressing. Now I have a John Sebastian "One Guy, One Guitar" CD that is five (5) db higher than anything else I own. I cannot put it on a multiple without remembering that it is there for ears sake. With so many compressed CDs around a company is comitting suicide by using the full range we were told about and promised. Think of a Classical Concert the quiet passages, the crescendo, the forte. On the "average" CD - all one level. Part of the compression was also done to satisfy ampliflier and speaker companies and their warranties. We go full circle. Now in three (3) different cities in different States, friends have told me of radio stations speeding up the recordings. So we had giveaways, chances for a prize, caller number x for a chance and now some that are giving prizes. So in my allusion to radio stations, we may have a chance for better recording. I still laugh at ads for electronic add-on for your recorder to give it that analogue sound or the come back of tubed microphones. dodger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdm56 Posted May 24, 2004 Author Share Posted May 24, 2004 If I understand then, the concensus seems to be the same ol' same ol: GREED! Like the bible says, "the love of money is the root of all evil" - or something like that. And ain't it the truth! Just think of how the love of money over all else has hurt the "art" of music: Musicians and songwriters ripped off by record companies; record companies desire to watermark, or otherwise pee all over the recordings they sell us, so as to mark "their" territory; Record companies intentionally compressing the life out of the music just so it will be the loudest thing on the dial. It's depressing. It's also enough to make this old geezer become mighty reluctant to spend money on anything other than jazz and classical until I have read some reviews of a particular recording that give me some assurance that sound quality will be at least acceptable. It's funny that the record biz people complain about downloads cheating them out of sales. Maybe if they gave people a good product for a fair price, they would be less inclined to go the download route. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dodger Posted May 24, 2004 Share Posted May 24, 2004 For some reason I seem to remember two (2) points at which statements were made that CDs would be less expensive than Albums. The first was upon introduction. The second was within the past twenty (20) months after a lawsuit I believe. Statements were made that CD prices would drop quite a bit. Price vs quality does not compute. Now correct me if I am wrong we pay a "fee" on blank CDs due to copying. If I am correct, how is the amount collected distributed to Recording Artists? dodger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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