cjgeraci Posted May 31, 2004 Share Posted May 31, 2004 ---------------- On 5/31/2004 10:08:17 AM DeanG wrote: He did upgrade his amplification to a Parasound HCA-1500, but was probably running it through the preamp section of his Denon. I'm one of those that thinks the preamp is more critical than than the amplifier. If I had to, I would be more likely to run a lesser "quality" amp, and put most of my money into the preamp or processor. ---------------- Yeah, I forgot he just purchased the Parasound. You are right; I believe he is still running the Denon as a prepro. I agree with the importance of the pre/pro vs. the amp for a difference in your sound. I originally toyed with the idea of going with a number of different amps, including Parasound Halos. In the end, I put more money into the pre/pro than I had intended to (Classe) and went with more reasonably priced amps (Rotel) because I noticed a more dramatic difference between various pre/pros. Frankly, I love my combo. Carl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Robin Posted June 1, 2004 Share Posted June 1, 2004 Didnt George Carlin have some good input for Brightness in one of his shows? Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistol Pete Posted June 1, 2004 Share Posted June 1, 2004 ---------------- On 5/30/2004 10:39:46 PM DeanG wrote: ---------------- On 5/30/2004 9:19:39 PM Pistol Pete wrote: A source is a source and amplification is amplifcation. Think about this for awhile and its easy to see that the largest variables are at the end of the speaker wire and the listeners ears. ---------------- A little different line of thinking than what you had just not too long ago. Think about what you said, because you are absolutely correct. ---------------- Yes it is, i'll tell you I am almost ready to take you up on that crossover upgrade offer...So you'd need my RC-3II and RF-3II crossovers? What exactly do you have in mind as far as upgrading them goes? Do you change the crossover point? Tell me more about it. The rest of the post I wont even answer because I don't even own any Denon gear, frankly I am insulted that you would accuse me of owning such ..umm stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted June 1, 2004 Share Posted June 1, 2004 I don't change the crossover point -- all I do is put in higher quality parts. I do slightly mod the RF-7, and I will definitely do it to the RF-3 IIs if the circuit is similiar. Until I see one though, I have no way of knowing. You are more than welcome to send me the crossovers. You pay for the cost of the parts, and I'll provide free labor -- but then I get a free review. Damn I'm tired of paying for those things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jephdood Posted June 2, 2004 Share Posted June 2, 2004 Let me know how this goes you guys.. I also have RF-3s and I've wondered about upgrading the crossovers on them.. if it would make enough of a difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted June 2, 2004 Share Posted June 2, 2004 for what it's worth...there is a very good scientific reason that different amps make the same speakers sound way different. Let's start out with some ideas: For every frequency, a speaker has a different impedance. For every frequency, an amp too has a different input AND output impedance. For every speaker and amp, the input signal varies from the modified output signal. A speaker is converting electrical voltages to sound pressure. This process involves linear and non-linear momentum which results in the output being a very complex bad representation of input signal that it's supposed to replicate. An amp suffers from the same sort of distortion but in the electrical medium. An amplifier is only supposed to raise the voltage of the input signal, but in the process introduces many other forms of distortion...many of which can be/are compensated for with extra circuitry. Since the source of the input signal for the speaker is the output of the amplifier, the complex result of the speaker cone movement from the speaker's input signal causes the amp to see an even more complex impedance which results in the amp's output changing based on the speaker as well. Throw in the fact that this impedance is different for every frequency and things get even more complex. I'm gonna stop for now, but my goal here was to point out the very complex relationship between speaker and amplifier. There's always talk about the possibilities of creating the perfect amp for every speaker, but the mathematics involved are so complex that only a few people in the world would be capable of setting up the equations for such a task. Then the process of solving these equations and trying to implement the results into a physical reality becomes a very non-profitable process. Add to this process that no one speaker is ideal for every situation and it becomes clear that the hypothetical ideal amplifier will never exist. All that said, the process of switching out amps and speakers is one of trying to find the least worst of a lot of bads. But this is also what makes this hobby interesting as we can all pursue our own desires and tastes and find flaws in designs that don't bother us. But to go out and say that one amplifier will sound the same as another is a rather bold statement and I would question the ears of an individual claiming there is no difference. However, it's also true that room treatment and better speakers are capable of producing a larger difference in the sound (notice i say capapable, because some people have rooms that don't have many issues to begin with...which in essence, is already more ideal than a room that uses treatments to arrive at the same level). In a near ideal listening environment, I would say that a different amplifier could make a world of difference. Even in a non-ideal environment, you can still hear the benefits of a "better" amp, but the difference is often masked by other problems in the environment. But to address the original question, is there a lack of bass in your system? or is everything sound fine except for the brightness? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted June 2, 2004 Share Posted June 2, 2004 Even in a non-ideal environment, you can still hear the benefits of a "better" amp, but the difference is often masked by other problems in the environment. Masked, Dr.? no, exacerbated probably, meaning to increase the severity, violence, or bitterness of; to aggravate the other problems of the front-end equipment, loudspeakers and environment. Tone that brightness down? EQ, room treatments, crossover upgrade, new receiver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
easylistener Posted June 2, 2004 Share Posted June 2, 2004 I beleive that the pre does more for sound than anything. My father bought a pair of new speakers. He decided to try and combine both systems. He was using a audire amp with the denon receiver as a pre. It sounds pretty bad. It was closed and dead. We put the pioneer pre back in the mix and everything came alive again. Playing around with stuff like this will show you first hand what a differnce all this stuff can make. I use a denon receiver as a pre/pro also. I can not wait till I can upgrade. It is a damn good receiver and is better than most out there but think about it how good is that pre. The amps and chips to decode it all cost the most money. The pre in the receivers are probally about $100. A decent pre is like $3000. I also think these new klipsch are brighter than the older klipsch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistol Pete Posted June 2, 2004 Share Posted June 2, 2004 ---------------- On 6/2/2004 12:08:39 AM jephdood wrote: Let me know how this goes you guys.. I also have RF-3s and I've wondered about upgrading the crossovers on them.. if it would make enough of a difference. ---------------- Dean I have PMed you , in fact more than once. Did you not get them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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