GG impressions from abroad

[dubai2000]

I suppose its time to update my ongoing Transcendent Sound saga. After receiving the SE-OTL and simply being stunned by its performance, it didnt take much convincing myself having a shot at the GG preamp. Again Erik was kind enough to assemble the unit for me (big thanks!). The preamp arrived early last week, expertly packed and ready to be fired up. Its in stock form except the volume pots. As I was looking for some kind of balance control, Erik added one master volume control and a level control for each channel (which of course works just the way it should).

Before describing its sound, it might be useful to put it into perspective of different preamps currently used.

First the factory wired AE-1: Microphonics are an issue, but only with some tubes! The Halo-o tube dampers cured most of those ills. With the right 6SN7s, the unit sounds excellent (and I like the huge soundstage created by Sylvania VT-231s).

Next: McIntosh MX-110. Enough has been written about its quality once it is brought up to specs and tubes have been rolled. There is something seductive about the sound which is difficult to put into words...and to my ears there is no more lack of information at frequency ends, nor any thickening of sound once it has seen a tech.

Enter GG: I think it can/should be called the invisible preamp. Like its power amp brother, it does not seem to add anything to the music which is...just there!

But I should admit that when it was put into the system right after the MX-110, I was kind of surprised NOT to experience a very dramatic change (along the lines of Oh, it blew the Mc away with the first tones played). Instead there were subtle differences. The soundstage seemed to be slightly wider, but also less deep. Bass was perhaps a bit more controlled. What struck me though was how transparent and airy it presented familiar tracks. Good as the unit sounded, I was not quite as overwhelmed as when getting the SE-OTL. Perhaps the unit needed more burn in? I left it on for 24 hours but didnt notice much of a change. Next attempt was having a go at the tubes. The unit uses three 12AU7s and came with EI tubes. I had read that changing V1/V2 would have the biggest effect on sound, so I got out some 5963 RCA Black Plates, 12AU7 Philips (supposedly relabelled Mullards) and RCA Clear Tops. It didnt take much listening to rule out the 5963s: too muddy for this amp, the Philips fared much better, but only when the Clear Tops were put in place, the sound acquired the three dimensionality I had been waiting/ hoping for. Finally the GG shows that it is indeed a very natural, open, never strident or harsh sounding preamp which in a sense simply gets out of the way in order to make you perceive the one thing that matter most: music!

Again I had discovered a piece of equipment which performs way above its relatively modest price tag...in fact those amps could well be the first and last for anybody wanting to assemble a first class tube/Heritage system. Trust me, you dont know what you are missing - though putting up with delivery times can be trying but its definitely worth your patience!

Wolfram

[Erik Mandaville]

"What struck me though was how transparent and airy it presented familiar tracks."

I think you have exactly described the sound we experienced here. Too, that the preamp can pull off such an amazing vanishing act, is certainly to its credit. Both the SE OTL and Grounded Grid preamp seem to simply not be in the system, yet are able to produce such a convincing and palpable illusion of real, 3-dimensional music. Considering the total cost of both components, such performance is pretty tough to beat. I have nothing whatsoever to do with Transcendent Sound, but have sort of 'followed' or read about Rozenblit's work since the early 90s. His first published preamp design (Glass Audio) was the first project I ever made on my own, and that was also a great preamp. The Grounded Grid is in a totally different class, though. The circuit design is interesting, including active plate loading and some other important elements. It is said to measure nearly ruler-flat from a few Hz all the way out to 300kHz, and yes, does incorporate a little bit of feedback. One of the other 'tweaks' or modifications of the preamp has to do with altering the value of the feedback resistor, or removing it altogether. It's not critical to the circuit. Wolfram: one way to experiment with that would be to have the resistor removed from the PCB, and install a 3 terminal solder strip (I can send a few just to have)that can be installed on the PCB using one of the four screws that hold it to the chassis. You can try feedback resistors of various values (I believe the stock one is 100K ohms). You could also just clip it out altogether! This would result in an increase in gain of about 7 dBs, and output impedance will go up just a little -- with an output impedance of an amazingly low 200 ohms already, the increase would be insignificant. Experimenting with feedback resistors would be fun, I think! You could permanently install two leads to the feedback resistor connections on the PCB, and connect the other ends (just tack soldered them temporarily)to whatever resistor you want to use -- 250K, 500K, 700K, etc., which would decrease the amount of feedback to the grid of V1B. The same thing could be done with the coupling capacitors on the output of the preamp. I found the 'house' sound pretty great just as it is, though!

edit: When we listened to it, I think I was only able to hear out to about 225 kHz -- which is where my hearing ability drops like a rock!

PS: I know you don't solder, Wolfram, but thought maybe you could get help with those mods if you felt like you really wanted to try them. If the feedback resistor is removed, the preamp may also not be as quiet as it is right now.

[mike stehr]

225 Kilohertz?

[Erik Mandaville]

Yup! Even though my HF hearing isn't nearly what it used to be.

....mike, mike, mike...............I'm kidding. I can only hear out as far as about 185 kHz.

[mike stehr]

185 kHz?

[Guy Landau]

but Kiko can hear 500Khz tones .

[mike stehr]

Must be real annoying next to a personal computer.

[sfogg]

Erik,

"  It is said to measure nearly ruler-flat from a few Hz all the way out to 300kHz, and yes, does incorporate a little bit of feedback. "

Just from an acedemic standpoint it would be interesting to see if it does go out that far.

Bruce said the SE-OTL would pass perfect 10kHz square waves and was flat to 100kHz. When I measured mine it sure appeared to confirm that claim.

Shawn

[Deang]

O.K. So these amps are for real -- no B.S.?

[dubai2000]

Absolutely real - no B.S. at all!

Wolfram

[Erik Mandaville]

Dean:

The amp and preamp figures are absolutely for real -- the cow (or bull) doo doo part was my hearing ability. The Transcendent stuff is amazing from both a technical point of view, as well as in terms of how they play music. I've never heard components sound so utterly natural and musical.

I have another friend in Germany, who is a talented designer. He has built a number of amps and preamps from scratch, including his own version of the Grounded Grid preamp. He liked the preamp so much, that he recently ordered the factory kit, as well as the Transcendent phono stage. He had 2A3 amps much like my own, and now uses the SE OTL, also of course from Transcendent Sound.

Nope! no BS at all. I've got another SE OTL on the way to build, and it will be a pleasure to work on and test. I just wish I could afford my own pair to use bridged as monoblocks. 4 extremely clean watts through Klipschorns would be very nice, I think.

Hi, Shawn! Good to hear from you!

Erik

[jbsl]

Two months ago I purchased a Cayin TA 30 and ran it with a pair of SB3's with a NAD C540 cd player in my bedroom and I have never heard my SB3's sound so good! I had a friend who heard my KLF 20's and went to Best Buy to buy Klipsch and did not like the sound of the Synergy series. I did not like the sound either because they were using $300 A/V receivers. My advice to anyone with Synergy Series speakers get tube preamps, amps or integrated amps!!!

Which brings me to my current ongoing problem this bug I was infected with in Nov 2003, THE UPGRADE BUG!!!. When I hooked the Cayin TA 30 up to my 2004 La Scalas they sounded better than the solid state stuff but the LS still did not sound as good as I have heard them before. So I used my Denon 4800 A/V receiver as a preamp with TA 30 as the amp and bought a NAD C542 CD player and the sound quality went up another notch. I was suprised that the Denon would improve the sound that much but when I was using the Denon with the SM 70 pros monoblock amps it also had a great sound with my KLF 20s. Even though the Denon is SS it has a very good sound with Klipsch speakers IMHO. The better quality speakers used with the TA 30 the harder the preamp in the TA 30 has to work and with LS it does a okay job but does not bring out the best from the LS. Also the LS have not had a good chance to brake in yet since I got them begining of April. With the SB3s they sounded fantastic with the TA 30!! I'm now using a 1983 Luxman C300 preamp with a Monarchy Audio SM 70 pro 35 watt stereo amp and a NAD C540 cd player with the SB3s and they sound fantastic in this set up also. For all those people who bad mouth the Synergy series listen to them with very good componets and they may not sound like Heritage or Refernce but I was shocked at how good they sound now.

So now of course I'm looking for a really good tube preamp to go with the TA 30 to take the LS to the next level and then the bug will bite again and I will upgrade to a tube amp.

So my question for Erik is for a extreme beginer, never used a sautering iron or any other tools used to make a preamp how hard would it be for me to build the Transcendent Sound preamp and amp you and dubai2000 Freak are talking about? Also do you think the 24 step attenuator with or without the pc board would also be worth installing in the amp?

Xman

[leok]

Wolfram, Erik,

Thanks for the very interesting reviews on what sounds like excellent equipment that is very reasonably priced. Also your willingness to put in the time and money to check this equipment out provides us with reference information that would not otherwise be available.

If I ever want more refinement, I know where to look first.

Leo

[Erik Mandaville]

Leo:

You're very welcome but I know for a fact your syestem is outstanding and very refined right now! You've built into your Moondogs what in my opinion are among the best aspects of SET amplification. The Grounded Grid preamp might be something to consider, though. The reason I say this is because I think you have been using a simple in-line volume control/switch box to control sources (please correct me if that's not accurate), and the Transcendent Grounded Grid is so truly quiet that it's as if it isn't in the system at all. It's virtually a passive preamp with gain, that has both very low output impedance and no noise of it's own.

dubai 2000!? Indeed a really nice guy and serious lover of music. 'Freak' simply does not compute.

But anyway, to answer your question: If you have never used a soldering iron before, my opinion is that both Transcendent products recently mentioned would not be components I would recommend for first-time projects. Working with tightly packed printed circuit boards takes good soldering equipment and a little (not necessarily tons) of experience to do a clean job. The products are a great value, but are not cheap. I would say of the two, the Grounded Grid preamp would be the best to start with. Even then, I would very strongly encourage you to do some point to point wiring, connection, and soldering practice before even considering an expensive kit. I would say hold off on the SE OTL altogether until you are a little more used to basic soldering and electronics technique. There are a few far cheaper kits I can point you towards for a first time project. I have learned that, as of yesterday, Transcendent Sound will not be offering factory built kits. So, it will be up to the customer to find a means to complete the kit.

Erik

[dubai2000]

Leo and Erik,

thanks for the kind remarks.

As I didn't/couldn't do any soldering, I should really keep quiet now, but I suppose once one has mastered the skills Erik refers to, at least the GG manual is quite straight forward and not at all confusing (or so it seems). That doesn't help a complete newbie, but those people who can handle a soldering iron confidently, might indeed consider the GG. In terms of performance both units are certainly worth a try....and I am curious to find out what Mullard CV4003s will do to the GG... .

Wolfram

[Erik Mandaville]

Wolfram:

You're right, in addition to being one day closer to the weekend! Good point about the assmbly manual for the Grounded Grid. It's really very straightforward, and just perfect in terms of the sequence of the different steps. Anyone serious about learning about basic soldering could put the kit together. Printed circuit boards are actully easier in some way that point to point wiring. Once it gets going, it really goes fairly quickly.

There are people who have built the GG as a first time project, so it can be done. But do some practicing of basic wiring and soldering first.

Also, little over one watt in output may be different from the 35 you're used to with the Monarchy amp (those a good SS amps, I think!). So, there may be some other factors to consider...

And Wolfram!

I'll share more about this later, but I have COMPLETELY rearranged our listening room (I'm worrying about what will happen when Marie comes home!). The K-horns actually fit quite well on the shorter, but I have toed them outward just a few inches so the listening positioning is a bit further away than it would be if the Horns were really snug in the 90 degree corner. But they sound FINE! Really quite good! I can't tell yet if there is less bass response from the outward toe, but there is certainly a nice amount of room behind the sweet spot. As it was before the couch (a futon I made)was right up against the back wall, which although it worked well, had me wondering about using the K-horns on the short wall (it's about 15 feet across) might work -- and it works well. The whole room looks visually much more balanced, but I needed to reposition some house plants, paintings, and some hand-woven rug wall hangings I use for both decoration and sound absorption. But this! I am finally able to use the length of IC cable you sent to me, since the run from preamp to amps is now only about 6 feet as opposed to the 25 it was before -- that's just too long! And you know what? it's a great cable and very quiet, which I think is due to the twinaxial rather than coaxial design. I grounded the shield at one end only, so as to try not to pick up stray RFI and other unwanted stuff that would otherwise be injected in along with the signal. But there is still perfectly good shielding with it being grounded at just one end. On the amp side, the sheild is floating. Thanks very much for it, it's working fine!

Erik

Oh! The tube damper are on standby until I'm finished with the AE-1 rebuild. I did a bunch of filing on the chassis yesterday, and am just kind of tired of it. Every single hole and cut-out (for the IEC connector) is done, and all I have to do is file down a few rough edges, and then start the wiring. I'm taking a break from the AE-1 today, and have been working on this listening room fix up since 5:00 this morning.

[dubai2000]

Erik,

it's very late so I'll be brief: yes, I certainly believe that the IC I have sent you is really excellent and I suppose it might be about time to spread the news.

Anyway, I am glad you like it and believe me, it even gets better once it's used for all connections (plus the appropriate speaker wire).

I'll be in touch by tomorrow.

Wolfram