gullahisland Posted June 27, 2004 Share Posted June 27, 2004 In reference to the recently pulled thread (where once again fini had the honor of getting the last word), I have only this to say: Regardless of political persuasion or affiliation, I have to say, SHAME ON YOU CHUCKEARS! Bringing a 12-year-old to this movie (F-9/11) is simply WRONG! I sure wouldn't want my kids attending a sleepover at the Chuckears household...YIKES! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted June 27, 2004 Share Posted June 27, 2004 Dan, Strong words there! I have no qualms about taking my 13 year-old, but absolutely would not take anyone else's child without expressed parental consent (just as I wouldn't take kids to violent films like LOTR without their parent's permission). Really, parents should see it first, then if they think it's appropriate, they sould see it with their kids. BTW, I would let my kids sleep over at Chuckear's house (but I'd want to come along). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clipped and Shorn Posted June 27, 2004 Share Posted June 27, 2004 Just curious. I have not seen either film, both supposedly true to something or other, but was wondering which has more blood & guts gory scenes, Mel Gibson's Christ movie or Michael Moore's F-9/11? Anyone who has seen both qualified to answer? Don't answer if you are not one of the millions who have seen both. C&S PS, darn I missed the ending of the pulled thread, how did it end, anyone keeping a log or archive? (it was kind of fun while it lasted....) hmmmmm....maybe we can get Bose interested in keeping archive logs of the rare censored uncirculated Klipsch threads for use by future researchers. ....someone needs to keep records of these things, they may prove valuable (like after the revolution when lying heads will roll). Oops, where is the smiley face button......Oh, I see just down below, OK here goes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gullahisland Posted June 27, 2004 Author Share Posted June 27, 2004 ---------------- On 6/27/2004 12:55:33 AM fini wrote: Dan, Strong words there! I have no qualms about taking my 13 year-old, but absolutely would not take anyone else's child without expressed parental consent (just as I wouldn't take kids to violent films like LOTR without their parent's permission). Really, parents should see it first, then if they think it's appropriate, they sould see it with their kids. BTW, I would let my kids sleep over at Chuckear's house (but I'd want to come along). ---------------- As parents, it is our job to instill values and ethics and to teach or kids right from wrong. Why on earth would anyone want to expose their children to extreme fringe politics? Isn't this what they do in the middle east? Radicalize children? Osama would be very proud. Let our children be children. Don't force them to view the world as you do (at least not from a political perspective) REGARDLESS of your political leanings, LEFT or RIGHT. Teach them that America is the greatest country in the history of man. Teach them that it is our responsibility to PROTECT our freedom. Teach them that there is a great COST of freedom. America is becoming increasingly polarized. If we don't find some common ground (and FAST), we're ALL in jeopardy of losing our freedom to a bunch of radical Islamo-fascists who'd like nothing more than to kill (be-head) EVERY LAST ONE OF US - From Michael Savage to Michael Moore...and everyone inbetween. That's you and me. C&S - Anyone who takes their young children to see The Passion should be reported to Child Protective Services. THAT'S CRAZY! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted June 27, 2004 Share Posted June 27, 2004 I encourage my children to experience all sorts of ideas, and to discuss these ideas openly. I try to teach them tolerance, love and courage. I think I'm doing a pretty damn good job, thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anarchist Posted June 27, 2004 Share Posted June 27, 2004 ---------------- On 6/27/2004 9:57:43 AM gullahisland wrote: As parents, it is our job to instill values and ethics and to teach or kids right from wrong. Let our children be children. Don't force them to view the world as you do... Teach them that America is the greatest country in the history of man. Teach them that it is our responsibility to PROTECT our freedom.... ...we're ALL in jeopardy of losing our freedom ---------------- A variety of contradictions and omissions in that post. I won't go into because, frankly, your post harbored a variety of 'political' stances which our moderator is certain to object to and close the door on this thread. That said: I find my purpose in parenting is not only to perform the functions contained in your first sentence but also to teach them to be independent thinkers. To me that means exposing them a great variety of viewpoints and then challenging them to find the fallacies and/or accuracies contained in each of those viewpoints and derive their own thought. To your second point which I quoted, you contradict yourself. Let them be children and then force dogma on them? To do so simply makes them mindless parrots of political rantings. It encourages them to be sheep. The Roman Empire was once the greatest... America will go the same route because we fail to remember the lessons of history. Fighting for our freedom, a la Jefferson, is something we read about in history books and most have no clue what any of it meant. Yes we are but it is not due to outside forces; the greatest enemy to freedom comes from within our borders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gullahisland Posted June 27, 2004 Author Share Posted June 27, 2004 ---------------- On 6/27/2004 10:59:08 AM fini wrote: I encourage my children to experience all sorts of ideas - Really? So do you encourage them to listen to Michael Savage or watch Dennis Miller to get the "other" perspective? and to discuss these ideas openly. - So you'll discuss how Moore took quotes out of context and outright fabricated his "facts" and "statistics"? You'll also discuss what qualifies as a documentary vs editorial too, right? I try to teach them tolerance, love and courage. - Yes. Those are ALL things that Michael Moore expresses through his "art". He's VERY tolerant of terrorists, LOVES himself deeply and courageously laughs all the way to the bank. Seriously, how does F-9/11 mesh with your stated mission for teaching tolerance, love and courage?? I must be stupid. I think I'm doing a pretty damn good job, thank you. - I never said that you weren't. ---------------- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickB Posted June 27, 2004 Share Posted June 27, 2004 Fini I completely agree with you, thats how I was raised and thats how I raise my son. I'm proud to say at 8 years old he's already quite the free thinker. Actually though it's pretty easy to raise a child that way. Everyone is born with an open mind, they have to be taught to be narrow minded, intolerant, prejudice, and anything else that will help keep them in line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gullahisland Posted June 27, 2004 Author Share Posted June 27, 2004 A variety of contradictions and omissions in that post. I won't go into because, frankly, your post harbored a variety of 'political' stances which our moderator is certain to object to and close the door on this thread. Since when is defending freedom a "political stance"? I find my purpose in parenting is not only to perform the functions contained in your first sentence but also to teach them to be independent thinkers. To me that means exposing them a great variety of viewpoints and then challenging them to find the fallacies and/or accuracies contained in each of those viewpoints and derive their own thought. Okay...So where do you draw the line? How do you weigh the exposure to left, right and center to assure that you're not influencing the derivation of "their own thought". To your second point which I quoted, you contradict yourself. Let them be children and then force dogma on them? To do so simply makes them mindless parrots of political rantings. It encourages them to be sheep. Again, being patriotic and proud of our nation with all its' benefits (derived from freedom and liberty) is DOGMA? The Roman Empire was once the greatest... America will go the same route because we fail to remember the lessons of history. Fighting for our freedom, a la Jefferson, is something we read about in history books and most have no clue what any of it meant. Yes we are but it is not due to outside forces; the greatest enemy to freedom comes from within our borders. Indeed, the greatest enemies are well within our borders (not including the Islamic sleeper-cells). I was attempting to illustrate that we need to stand together to protect what is important to ALL of us...Our FREEDOM. It would seem, however, that even THAT is a point of political contention. And THAT is exactly what WILL result in our demise. Am I the only one who finds it ironic that I get attacked for trying to find common ground? If defending our freedom won't unite us then let me be the next to have my head lopped off, because we're DOOMED!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gullahisland Posted June 27, 2004 Author Share Posted June 27, 2004 ---------------- On 6/27/2004 11:29:29 AM RickB wrote: Fini I completely agree with you, thats how I was raised and thats how I raise my son. I'm proud to say at 8 years old he's already quite the free thinker. Actually though it's pretty easy to raise a child that way. Everyone is born with an open mind, they have to be taught to be narrow minded, intolerant, prejudice, and anything else that will help keep them in line. ---------------- I'm sure he's a VERY "FREE" thinker. 'Cuz you don't sound the least bit "narrow minded". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anarchist Posted June 27, 2004 Share Posted June 27, 2004 On 6/27/2004 11:42:30 AM gullahisland wrote: Since when is defending freedom a "political stance"? Surely you jest, your mention of Osama notwithstanding. Okay...So where do you draw the line? How do you weigh the exposure to left, right and center to assure that you're not influencing the derivation of "their own thought". "...exposing them a great variety of viewpoints and then challenging them to find the fallacies and/or accuracies contained in each of those viewpoints and derive their own thought." Again, being patriotic and proud of our nation with all its' benefits (derived from freedom and liberty) is DOGMA? Short answer. Yes. The grandiose proclamations of this country being the 'greatest' without beginning to understand what that means, understanding the countries shortcomings (or ignoring them), having a good basis of history, and relevant comparisons to other countries is, indeed, dogma. I was attempting to illustrate that we need to stand together to protect what is important to ALL of us...Our FREEDOM. It would seem, however, that even THAT is a point of political contention. Yes it is. This board has demonstrated that quite well in its little vacuum. Some think freedom means the ability to discuss any topic. Others clamor for banning a multitude of topics. Am I the only one who finds it ironic that I get attacked for trying to find common ground? I didn't feel this was the case. You being attacked, that is. I try to give my kids a good understanding of what being an American means; to that means, I keep a good number of references available to them including Car&Driver, Road&Track, and Motortrend. For balance, I allow them to watch Bill Maher, Dennis Miller, Penn & Teller's Bull$hit, and George Carlin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted June 27, 2004 Share Posted June 27, 2004 I encourage my children to experience all sorts of ideas - Really? So do you encourage them to listen to Michael Savage or watch Dennis Miller to get the "other" perspective? Yes, although we don't find them nearly as entertaining, smart, or funny. Ask my kids. and to discuss these ideas openly. - So you'll discuss how Moore took quotes out of context and outright fabricated his "facts" and "statistics"? You'll also discuss what qualifies as a documentary vs editorial too, right? Yes, absolutely. Gives them perpective on how things are taken out of context and manipulated in all media. It is a constant battle separating the wheat from the chaff. I try to teach them tolerance, love and courage. - Yes. Those are ALL things that Michael Moore expresses through his "art". He's VERY tolerant of terrorists, LOVES himself deeply and courageously laughs all the way to the bank. Seriously, how does F-9/11 mesh with your stated mission for teaching tolerance, love and courage?? I must be stupid. No, just very opinionated and uninformed with respect to this film. Go see it. It's OK to sneak in, too. Mike said so. It will probably reinforce your preconceived notions. It did mine. You'll have to agree, it's fascinating seeing this unfold. I think I'm doing a pretty damn good job, thank you. - I never said that you weren't. I never said you said I weren't. Wasn't. Aint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gullahisland Posted June 27, 2004 Author Share Posted June 27, 2004 Hey Amy - Before you close this down, I think that we have here a good example of how we can discuss a controversial subject (such as politics) and still get along. It's healthy...and necessary. Fini - I don't think we're too far apart. I agree that we must weigh ALL information fed through the media from ALL sources. My only point here was that I didn't think it was such a good idea to involve young, impressionable children in such a controversial, politically-charged film as F-9/11. On the other hand, I don't doubt for a moment that you fully disclaim all of the unthruths (and half-truths) before and after the film. In that respect, I respect you very much. THAT is good parenting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickB Posted June 27, 2004 Share Posted June 27, 2004 ---------------- On 6/27/2004 11:46:55 AM gullahisland wrote: ---------------- On 6/27/2004 11:29:29 AM RickB wrote: Fini I completely agree with you, thats how I was raised and thats how I raise my son. I'm proud to say at 8 years old he's already quite the free thinker. Actually though it's pretty easy to raise a child that way. Everyone is born with an open mind, they have to be taught to be narrow minded, intolerant, prejudice, and anything else that will help keep them in line. ---------------- I'm sure he's a VERY "FREE" thinker. 'Cuz you don't sound the least bit "narrow minded". ---------------- I don't really understand how anyone could read what I said and come to the conclusion that it makes me narrow minded, but thats ok we all read into things what we want. Hey its all cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Did not mean to offend SO SOR Posted June 27, 2004 Share Posted June 27, 2004 Did not mean to offend. SO SORRY! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill H. Posted June 27, 2004 Share Posted June 27, 2004 Anyone interested in Wimbledon ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audible Nectar Posted June 27, 2004 Share Posted June 27, 2004 "Anyone interested in Wimbledon ?" Just to make sure you get a response, nope Sincerely, Screenname "NE1410S" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clipped and Shorn Posted June 27, 2004 Share Posted June 27, 2004 I see interesting parallels here between the running of the forum, the raising of children, and the running of a country. I see a preponderance of fear leading to close minded rigidity on one side of the equation, imo the unfortunate side of the equation, which is willing to forfeit freedom in the name of imposing it elsewhere. C&S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted June 27, 2004 Share Posted June 27, 2004 I think Trey put it very well a couple of days ago. "THIS IS OUR FORUM, IF YOU DONT WANT TO PLAY BALL WITH US, TAKE YOUR BALL AND GO HOME." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3dzapper Posted June 27, 2004 Share Posted June 27, 2004 Nevermind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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