D-MAN Posted August 17, 2004 Share Posted August 17, 2004 I've got a couple of 15" woofer pairs in the house, and have decided that I need to build a subwoofer using a pair... Any ideas, have any of you guys messed around with DIY subs? Your input would be appreciated. DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scp53 Posted August 17, 2004 Share Posted August 17, 2004 who are thet made by and what model/series?? give us the specs. the parameter specs. then you can put them in a cab design program and build off that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-MAN Posted August 18, 2004 Author Share Posted August 18, 2004 I've got a pair each of Eminence Gamma 15LF (8 Ohm) and Gamma 15 (4 Ohm). I think the 4 Ohm version is the ticket for a sub. I'll see if I can scare up the T/S parameters on them. DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scp53 Posted August 18, 2004 Share Posted August 18, 2004 is the 8ohm LF ones for lower stuff than the 4 ohm ones?? maybe the 8ohm are better for a sub?? I couldn't find the LF ones on the eminence site. I didn't look for a real long time though... let us know when you get the T/S parameters scp53 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsmyforte Posted August 18, 2004 Share Posted August 18, 2004 t/s parameters supplied by manufacturers can be off as much as 30%. only true way to know is measure them yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-MAN Posted August 18, 2004 Author Share Posted August 18, 2004 Hey, they're KAPPA - not GAMMA as I said earlier. Here's the specs: KAPPA 15C Specifications: * Power handling: 450 watts RMS * Voice coil diameter: 3" * Le: 1.05 mH * Impedance: 4 ohms * Frequency range: 30-2,500 Hz * Magnet weight: 80 oz. * Fs: 36 Hz * Vas: 9.8 cu. ft. * Qms: 10.60 * Qes: .31 * Qts: .30 * Xmax: 1.6 mm * Dimensions: Overall Diameter: 15.16", Cutout Diameter: 13.77", Mounting Depth: 6.125". Sensitivity: 103db KAPPA 15LF Specifications: * Power handling: 600 watts RMS * Voice coil diameter: 3" * Le: 1.27 mH * Impedance: 8 ohms * Re: 5.4 ohms * Frequency range: 35-3,000 Hz * Magnet weight: 95 oz. * Fs: 39 Hz * Vas: 5.6 cu. ft. * Qms: 6.08 * Qes: .41 * Qts: .38 * Xmax: 5.5 mm * Dimensions: Overall Diameter: 15.16", Cutout Diameter: 13.77", Mounting Depth: 6.375". Sensitivity: 101db If it wasn't for the efficiency being so high, the LF's would be in my corner horns, but they put out far more bass than the upper horns can keep up with... The C's are better at the real lows, so that is why I am thinking them for the subwoofer... DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scp53 Posted August 18, 2004 Share Posted August 18, 2004 what you planning to use for a amp?? plate?? seperate? how about for a EQ if seperate?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael hurd Posted August 19, 2004 Share Posted August 19, 2004 As for scratch built subwoofers, there are quite a few here, when I can scrape some funds together, I am considering building a sonotube subwoofer with a tempest. The Kappa 15lf is a great speaker for high output 2 and 3 way cabs for dj and stage work. They have a very short xmax, 5.5mm which is fine for lower volumes and/or higher tuning frequencies. It's sensitivity is high, but so is the fs (39 hz). Compare that to the Adire tempest - It has 16.4mm of one way Xmax Dual 2.5" diameter 8 Ohm voice coils. 89 dB efficient. sealed boxes from 54 to 200 liters, vented boxes from 150 to 300 liters, infinite baffle. Fs 19 Hz, Qms 6.5, Qes 0.41, Qts 0.38, Re 6.8 Ohms per voice coil, Vas 317L, Sd 779 cm2, 750W RMS. They are relativity inexpensive, and depending on the type / size of enclosure and drivers, quite capable of prodigious low frequency performance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael hurd Posted August 19, 2004 Share Posted August 19, 2004 If the tempest doesn't grab your attention for the best bang for the buck ratio, then consider also the Stryke av-15 and Adire tumult. ( 34mm clean excursion one way on the tumult! ) The Tumult also has an xbl^2 motor, which means that the motor strength remains basically constant over the entire gap, rather than being highest at rest, and falling as the coil moves away from the rest position. It features 5.1 litres of linear displacement ( Vd ). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Warren Posted August 19, 2004 Share Posted August 19, 2004 The Fs are too high to use for subwoofers. Also, I would like to see how the sensitivities are measured. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STL Posted August 19, 2004 Share Posted August 19, 2004 I have designed and built quite a few myself. Currently I am using an Audio Concepts DV-12 in a sealed 4 cubic foot enclosure. The enclosure is built using 3/4" MDF and is heavily braced inside. Back in 1993 when I originally purchased the driver, you couldn't find many with over 10mm of (one-way) Xmax and a really low (17 Hz) Fs. It's too bad that Audio Concepts no longer sells raw/DIY drivers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formica Posted August 19, 2004 Share Posted August 19, 2004 Unfortunately Michael and John are right... neither of those two drivers would do very well as a subwoofer. I didn't bother modeling them (you can download WinISD for free to get a feeling of their performance), but the high Fs and low Xmax limit low frequency performance. They are bass drivers and not subwoofer drivers. You would be better off selling those and getting a raw driver intended for that purpose... and there are many decent ones to chose from brands like Adire, Stryke, Blueprint, PartsExpress, etc... After building those K-horns, a sub will be a walk in the park... Rob PS: BTW I'm using a Stryke AV-15 in a ported enclosure with a 700W pro amp... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BerndH Posted August 19, 2004 Share Posted August 19, 2004 Hello D-Man, The Kappa 15 is a mid-bass-speaker, see the x-max 1,6 mm. The Kappa 15 LF is the better bass speaker (LF for low frequency). Don't believe the high sensitivity of 103 or 101 db/1W/1m. See the following page for the sensitivity versus frequency for Eminence speakers: http://editweb.iglou.com/eminence/eminence/pages/resources02/sensitivity.htm As you can see, your posted sensititivy is reached in a frequency range, one would never use a bass speaker. A bassbin for the Kappa 15 LF would have a volume of 150 liter and 4 bass reflex ports with a diameter of 11 cm and a length of 20 cm and would so tuned at about 45 Hz. Another interesting design used for semi-pro applications can you find here: http://www.aw-audio.kaigerner.de/subs/15arls.html But both speakers are bass speakers, not recommended for sub bass applications. I wouldn't use none of these speakers in the klipschorn. My experience with the Eminence EM 15-300, the precedessor of the Kappa 15, in my klipschorns was really bad - very bass shy. But i had the 8 Ohm version. After i changed them against the K-33, i realized what klipschorns can sound really. Bernd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-MAN Posted August 19, 2004 Author Share Posted August 19, 2004 Thanks, guys. I will take the advise and get a true subwoofer driver instead... Still, the thought of 2 15" drivers right behind the couch is alluring! DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnysal Posted August 19, 2004 Share Posted August 19, 2004 I built a Decware WO32, his top of the line subwoofer...it was kinda "one notey"...ended up in a storage shack somewhere...tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-MAN Posted August 19, 2004 Author Share Posted August 19, 2004 ---------------- On 8/19/2004 9:50:51 AM BerndH wrote: Hello D-Man, I wouldn't use none of these speakers in the klipschorn. My experience with the Eminence EM 15-300, the precedessor of the Kappa 15, in my klipschorns was really bad - very bass shy. But i had the 8 Ohm version. After i changed them against the K-33, i realized what klipschorns can sound really. Bernd ---------------- Hi, Bernd! Your experience lines up with mine, but I am using the 6x13" throat cavity opening interchangably in my horns, so the 8 Ohm drivers sound better using the wider opening. For the K33E, I use the traditional 3x13" opening. The problem that I had with both of the Eminence drivers were that the efficiencies were so much HIGHER than the Klipsch K33E that the midrange and tweeter could not match it. The LF's really punch it out, 30 watts per channel changes your heartbeat, I'm not kidding! Of course, 30 watts per channel on Khorns is pretty LOUD, anyway. But I could not achieve the wonderful midrange blending (like the K33E exhibits with them) no matter what I did. Both types are cheaper than K33E's too. The C's have a lot of low end but lacked mid-and-upper bass totally, again no matter what size throat cavity opening (3 or 6" wide)...I gave up on them completely for horn use. DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BerndH Posted August 19, 2004 Share Posted August 19, 2004 Hello D-Man, I used the EM15-300 with the 3x13" opening, when i bought the Klipschorns five years ago. About things like throat opening i had no clue. But maybe that would have been the trick. During this time i never felt, that the bass would punch out the mids and highs. I remember the day, when i screwed in my K-33 and did the first test: My son came out of his room and said "now we have bass". But firing 30 Watts into the Klipschorn Bernd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-MAN Posted August 19, 2004 Author Share Posted August 19, 2004 Hi Bernd, I don't know if a wider slot would have helped from what you are saying. It usually does when using an 8 Ohm driver in the Khorn due to reactance at the throat, but then there is the crossover to be contended with to adjust for the impedance change. I noticed that the "transparency" is far better with the K33E. But the K33E is not a real "punchy" driver for that reason, although it seems "effortless". An interesting note on my having the 15LF's in, I turned it up on a cut by "Tower of Power" for a buddy of mine at 30 watts (the amp has meters) and impressed him, of course. It actually changes your heartbeat and will flap your pantlegs. I'm talking "live-performance quality" bass here. Later on that week, he stopped by with his daughter and thought he'd impress her, too, so he turned it up before I could stop him - but I had already changed the drivers back to the K33E and the smaller slot size. It was loud, but nowhere near what it previously was...it just came out the midrange more, and got rather shrill. Not the same effect! I'm thinking about trying some Eminence Legend CB15's which are pretty close to K33E's sensitivity except that they can handle 300w and are 8 Ohm. I learned my lesson concerning more efficient drivers... DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-MAN Posted August 19, 2004 Author Share Posted August 19, 2004 Rob, Mike, John, STL - thanks for the replies. I'm going to look at the drivers suggested... STL - that's some fireplace! Keeps you warm in the winter, I'd bet! John, the sensitivity specs were from PartsExpress; take it with a grain of salt, of course. But they are definitely "too much" in a Klone without changing out the mid and tweets, too. DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STL Posted August 19, 2004 Share Posted August 19, 2004 D-MAN, Actually the subwoofer is in a cubby-hole area next to the fireplace. I think it was originally designed to store wood. The fireplace itself was converted to gas logs before I bought the house leaving that area useless -- until I came along! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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