Heritage Series: online dealers\questions

[rminten]

Are there any internet sites\dealers that carry the Heritage series? I'm trying to nail down pricing of this series.

Is this series the only one that has the Klipschorn? Did Klipsch move to the Tractrix horn starting with the Legend Series?

What are the differences between the Tractrix and the Klipschorn?

Thanks,

Randy

[boomer9911]

cha-ching

This message has been edited by boomer9911 on 07-29-2001 at 10:54 PM

[boomer9911]

you will never find the Heritages online unless it's ebay or newsgroups, etc. You can't find them in a store unless specially ordered! More info on the BB you will find.

check out this site for MSRP and work it from there

[soundog]

I got all my Heritage speakers used off the internet ... My Klipschorns like new in walnut came from a classified ad on www.audioreview.com. I upgaded them with new tweeters, new mid-range drivers and Al's great crosssovers. The Khorns cost me $1500. , the crossover upgrades $500., the tweeters and mid drivers for about $400. Better than new at a total cost of $2200. Sure beats over $6000 (incl. tax) for a new pair. ...I got a pair of LaScalas for $800. on ebay and a pair for $300 with one blown woofer which I replaced on ebay for $58. (exact match!) I now have a great surround system that far surpasses anything in todays multiplex movie theaters for a total speaker cost of about $3,500. for the Heritage speakers. For LFE on movies I use a KSW-15 (ebay) and an LH10 (ubid)at a cost of about another $1000. I had to wait for buys that were within driving distance but the wait was not long and the whole process has been a lot of fun!

[JohnA]

The Heritage Series are the original Klipsch speakers. They use exponential horns. The tractrix horn design has been around a long time, but Klipsch began using it relatively recently.

You will have to special order the Heritage Series and it will be a while before they are in production again due to the drivers being unavailable. The replacements have not yet been selected.

John

[WMcD]

The question is poorly phrased in some ways. It implies some conditions which do not exist. Thus tough to answer. And, below, I'm telling some things you are touching upon by implication, or accident, without knowing it. Still, technical accuracy counts for something.

The Klipschorn, strictly speaking, is the the big corner horn assembly. I suppose some would narrow that to the bass unit alone. Still, when you speak of the Klipschorn, it is only the big corner unit having a bass horn, a mid, and a tweeter. (The Klipsch organization has always maked a lot of speakers with individual horns. But the Klipschorn name should be restricted, in my mind.)

The expansion of the Klipschorn bass unit is essentially exponential. In it, this means the area doubles every 16 inches in length. This is a shorthand, but accurate, way of explaining the more complicated exponential equation.

The K-400 midrange is also exponential in expansion. It double in area every 2.25 inches.

The tweeter in the K-Horn, I'm not so sure about regarding expansion. It is an EV unit. My guess is that it is not strictly exponential.

The tractrix design is incorporated in more recent units. The design is too complicated to explain, here. However, in the Klipsch line up, there are no tratrix bass units.

The tratrix midrange started to be used with the Forte II and Chorus II, now out of production. At least that is my understanding.

In the more recent series, a single "tractrix" horn is used for the treble. Direct radiators are used for bass.

The tractrix horn was originated in the 20s and 30s by Voight. It makes an assumption about how the sound wave will be propagated down the horn as an arc of a circle, or sphereoid, and this implies an expansion which is not exponential. None the less, it has its own advantages.

I believe you're wading into some good natured, but serious debates on the forum. Q: Can I find new Heritage for sale on the internet? A: No. The factory does not have them in production but promises them "soon". Q: What is all this "tractrix" about. A: It is a newer design for the treble. Q: Which is better? A: It is all very good stuff.

- - - -

Let me go out on a limb here from a technical point.

The K-5 by PWK was an effort at a constant directivity horn. The tractrix treble horn follows that. In a hazy way of thinking, the recent Reference series are a bit like the Cornwall or Heresy in the low end. They are optimized direct bass radiators. They are mated with a tractrix treble which seeks the same goal as the K-5.

It is like we have an updated and downsized K-5 with a better bass direct driver system.

Others may well disagee. However, that is how I see it.

Gil

This message has been edited by William F. Gil McDermott on 07-30-2001 at 11:28 PM

[boa12]

while were're at it, could someone describe the woofer used on the khorns. i think some, like me at 1st, hear folded bass horn & picture the driver/cone being folded

which could be a little difficult

but i assume you have a 15" woofer which i think is or was the same as used in the cornwall firing into a folded cabinet (?)

[dougdrake2]

The folded horn refers, in my view, to the creation of a long horn passage by creating a pathway, within the speaker cabinet, for the sound to travel through before it exits the cabinet -- kind of like a maze that winds through the speaker cabinet. It allows the designer to achieve the effect of a very long horn in a small space. If you saw a cutaway view of a Khorn, you'd be amazed at the intricacy of the woodwork/cutting required to make the folded horn. (I believe that Bose - in all seriousness - uses this same concept to create the tunnels in its 901 and Wave Radio, and probably others as well.) So, the driver is placed at the entrance of the "maze" and the sound exits out the mouth of the horn, which is what you see in the bottom of the La Scala, for example.

That's my take on it, anyhow.

Doug

[Quenten]

reliableaudiovideo.com

Don't know if they are for real but they are advertizing the "new Herritage line!"

Discounted prices too

Confirmation WM?

[Ray Garrison]

Quenten -

link points to nobody. Also tried with a www in front of it. That the correct address?

------------------

Music is art

Audio is engineering

[Ray Garrison]

boa, dougdrake -

A bugle is a folded horn. If you took a bugle and straightened it out, you'd get a straight piece of brass tubing that expanded into a bell shaped mouth, and it would be several feet long. By folding the tubing back onto itself, you get a more compact instrument that can be more easily carried around.

Same thing with a folded horn loudspeaker (Klipschorn, Belle Klipsch, La Scala, various types of Edgarhorns, the different Lowther-based horns, etc.) A Klipschorn is basically a long, exponentially expanding wooden horn with a 15 inch driver sitting at the small end, and a big, wide mouthed horn flare sitting at the other end, with an exponential taper along the way. If it wasn't folded back onto itself, the speaker would be many feet in length. Folding the horn makes the speaker a more liveable size. Also, in the case of the Klipschorn, the "mouth" of the horn becomes the corner of the room, using the walls to create a great big flared mouth. That's why the KHorn goes so much lower in the bass than the La Scala or Belle - they rely totally on the cabinet to provide the final horn flare, which of necessity is much smaller than the flare the KHorn "sees".

Ray

------------------

Music is art

Audio is engineering

[boa12]

thanks doug & ray. i was going to ask if anyone has a diagram of the insides of a khorn &/or lascala. think stevep posted a pic of khorn inside once.

but your discriptions give me the scoop on those insides fine.

[Quenten]

Hey Ray

The link works on my end. I also typed it into a yahoo search "reliableaudiovideo.com" & it came up. Their site gives a #: 800-836-9396

They have updated the page since the Herritage line went offline. They offer several wood finishes (more expensive that standard finish), yet, still discounted.

So very nice to see prices!

[Guest BobG]

Quenten - a brief comment on dealers offering Heritage on the internet.

Heritage, with the exception of the Heresy II, is not currently in production. We have advised dealers that there is no date for resumption of production based on parts availability issues. A "dealer" offering these products on the internet merely demonstrates how unscrupulous they are. They are NOT Klipsch dealers, they cannot provide the product. All they wish to do is hook you into giving them your money.

Believe me, I understand the attraction of low price. I too want low prices on the things I buy. In this case BEWARE!

The dealer you mention is NOT a Klipsch dealer.

[Mr. Blorry]

Interesting that an authorized "Yahoo!" merchant is not an authorized K dealer! In the brief history of the internet, Yahoo! has tried to establish itself as a reputable source for information, news and entertainment as well as a reliable clearinghouse for quality products and dependable services. According to them, if we see the "Yahoo!" seal of approval on a merchant's website, we as consumers can trust that this is a respectable business and not some shady, fly by night con.

True to my experience with "Yahoo!" authorized businesses to date, it is not at all surprising to me that the stereo retailer in queston here is not completely on the up-and-up. I have had dealings with four businesses that display the Yahoo! emblem, and have had terrible experiences with all of them. Each matter was eventually resolved, but not until Yahoo! themselves had to step in and mediate. It was like dealing with a misbehaving child who would not settle down until the parents were called in and threatened punishment!

IMHO, beware of any company that displays the the Yahoo! symbol. I don't think Yahoo! does a very good job of screening the businesses they sponsor, and they only rely on customer feedback to monitor their level of service, rather than to conduct a periodic performance appraisal. Yahoo! Buyer Beware!

This message has been edited by Mr. Blorry on 08-05-2001 at 12:23 PM

[WMcD]

There are often questions about the insides of a KHorn. Attached are drawings from the patent.

Figure 5 was evidently a prototype, not applicable to our discussion.

Regarding the other drawings: the modern version has some different details. For example, this shows a 12 inch driver rather than the present 15 inch. Also, there is a narrower 3 x 13 inch slot in front of the present driver. The treble unit is not shown. But, on the whole these drawings are good illustrations.

You can make out the split path. First proceed up and down from the driver, then toward the back where the paths join at the tail board. Then there are two paths along the side. Here the structural wall of the room corner forms one of the boundaries.

The cross sectional area along the path doubles ever 16 inches.

I've used up 5 of my 6 upload spaces recently. So, I'll have to weed things in the future. Therefore, if you want it, save it on your computer. Naturally you can get the whole patent off of www.uspto.gov.

Regards,

Gil

This message has been edited by William F. Gil McDermott on 08-05-2001 at 10:00 PM

[Quenten]

Thanks BobG

We really appreciate you clearing up this issue. It is easy to take ads like this at face value--we depend on information from you to keep us accuratly informed. I have not yet been blessed to have heard these legendary speakers--hopefully soon.