Q-Man Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 Has anyone here using or ever used the B&K Reference 50? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frzninvt Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 Qman, I did briefly for about 10 days back at the beginning of this year. I am reasonably familiar with it. Got questions? I also think Tillbill has one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkp Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 Q-man- I have the Ref 30 processor in my 307 receiver, which is nearly identical to the 50. I am by no means an expert, but I will try to help in any way I can... David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q-Man Posted October 13, 2004 Author Share Posted October 13, 2004 I've gone full circle looking for a processor. I need to bite the bullit and just buy one. I wanted a processor with good bass management. One that has a min. of 40,60, and 80Hz. crossover choices. I would like to use a 40, or 50Hz crossover frequency for all my speakers and set the sub around 50Hz. The Anthem AVM 30 even has more choices then that. The B&K 50 only offers an 80Hz crossover and a choice of large or small for the speakers. But, I was reading that you can pick large for any and all the speakers or channels and then pick ultra sub and it will do double duty. It will send full range to all the large speakers and also send everying below (I think) 80Hz. from each channel to the subwoofer. It just said that it would also send the low bass from each channel set to large also to the subwoofer. The LFE .1 channel will also be sent to the sub. This doubling up of bass seems like something that I would like. I tried something like this with a Yamaha receiver and an Outlaw ICBM bass manager. The set up produced some very powerful bass in my room, and I liked the results. I was wondering if anyone has or had the 50 set up this way? I'm also interested in just how much control you have with the on board equalizer? It sounds like it would be a very useful feature. The Krell Showcase processor also offers some kind of room equalizer. The Anthem AVM 30 offers digital bass management for the 5.1 analog inputs. This is a first for SACD's and DVD-Audio. I think this is a feature that I could really get into. I have downloaded just about every AV/processor manual out there, and not one processor offers everything. You would think that by now there would be one processor that would combine all the best features from several units into one. The B&K 5o only weights about 10 pounds. Some of the other processors are 25 to 40 pounds. Frzninvt, I take it you didn't like something about the 50? I've heard of a few setup problems with it. Was it the sound that you didn't like? I just tried an Otlaw 950 and sent it back. I thought it sounded thin below about 200Hz. Maybe I can't expect that much in that price range. dkp, I would appreciate what ever you can tell be about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frzninvt Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 QMan, I did not like the annoying loud clicking relays and the PIA menus buried in menus etc. Sonically it was very nice if you can get around all the idiosyncrasies. It also had noise on the subwoofer output, the power meter on on power amp would hover even with no signal present. I just did not like it I chose the NAD T163 easily over the B&K Ref 50, it has the bass management that you desire, two dedicated subwoofer outputs (no "Y" adapters here), it has the feature that routes the bass to all the speakers even if they are set to large, you should check it out it will do what you want it to. Sonically, I could discern no sonic difference between it and the B&K Ref 50 NAD focuses on the sound and not all the flashy gimmicky nonsense. I got the NAD for $1300 from a brick and mortar authorized dealer. If you try one or listen to one make sure it has the latest chip set and the 2.0 operating system with the PLIIx. It has a special two channel listening option in it as well that bypasses all the DSP circuits, it has EARS, and two enhanced stereo listening modes and is easy to setup and you can rename all the sources. I love the thing. Check one out, you won't be sorry! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marksdad Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 frzninvt refers to a noise that was a part of thier software version 1, i too had the problem, it developed about 4 months after i bought mine, i sent it back on thier nickle, they not only upgraded the software, but a few hardware mods as well, now my 507 is almost soundless when switching, i have not had the chance to use all of the eq settings, but bass managment on my 507 is extremly flexable, plus the non current limiting design makes the bass outrageous right out of the box coupled with good downstream, and klipsch, i now have bettter than i dreamed i could have, the b&k gear for its price is flexable and a great value, i used to feel the need to upgrade all the time, once i stepped into the b&k gear coupled with the rest of my rig, i am now completly satisfied, unless i could find some more good deals on krell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strabo Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 ---------------- On 10/13/2004 4:43:45 PM Q-Man wrote: The Anthem AVM 30 offers digital bass management for the 5.1 analog inputs. This is a first for SACD's and DVD-Audio. I think this is a feature that I could really get into. ---------------- Since you mentioned this one. The Anthem offerers crossover points in 5hz increments. I don't remember the minimum setting but I think it is somewhere around 30hz (I can check) so you can bump it up 5hz at a time to 120hz. This is configurable for each channel (F/C/S/R). I think the biggest plus is the parametric eq included in the Anthem. It allows the user control over bass humps caused by the room by selecting the width and the center point of the eq in 1hz increments and attenuation in .5db increments. Unfortunately it only gives you one setting so if your room has too peaks then your SOL. I think it's great. Using a Rat Shack meter (using corrections from the internet) I have my sub set flat (+/- 1db in room) from 30hz - 90hz by using the built in eq. Unfortunately my sub starts rolling off below 30hz. It plays to at least to 25 but it's down a few dbs. As you mentioned, it does offer digital bass management for the 5.1 analog but I don't know how well it works. I haven't made the time to try it because I'm happy not using it. I can't get past the sticking point that it adds an extra ADC/DAC conversion that doesn't need to be there. I'm just glad that they allow it to be bypassed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frzninvt Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 Man that Anthem AVM-30 sounds real nice but it is a pricey piece isn't it? ~$3K. I did not realize the B&K Ref 50 had an equalizer in it, I saw no mention of it in the one I got. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich0372 Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 I also read that the Rotel 1068 has very flexable bass managment and retails for $1600 It let you choose different crossover points in different speakers and with different modes ( like fronts at 45hrz center at 80hrz and rears at 60hrz for movies and front large for music) it also has digital bypass You can also can set crossover points for the sub as well. IMO Rotel 1068 has the most flexabilty in bass managment in its price range I looked at one at my local dealer sounds really good Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q-Man Posted October 14, 2004 Author Share Posted October 14, 2004 This started a while back when I went to a dealer to buy a Sunfire Theater Grand IV. He told me that they didn't sell Sunfire any more, because of bad service and people wern't buying them anymore. He wanted to demo an Anthem AVM 20 for me, but I told him no. He said that it was about $400.00 cheaper then the Sunfire and had some very nice features. I again told him no. I figured that he was trying to sell me a piece of you know what. I never heard of Anthem. I then went to another dealer that carried Sunfire, and wouldn't you know it, they too gave up on Sunfire and had the Anthem. They said the Sunfires were noisey and the Anthem was a much better sounding unit. This time I gave it a listen to, but I couldn't tell if i liked it or not listening to it on some B&W speakers. I asked if I could return it if I didn't like it. Sure he say's, but you will have to pay a 15% restocking fee. That would be $510.00 because the AVM 20 was $3,400.00. The new AVM 30 is $3,000.00 and offers more. How about that. Have you ever heard of a company that comes out with a new and better product and sells it for less then the proceding one? Now one of the above dealers is offering me a demo AVM 20 for $2,200.00 so he can buy the AVM 30 to demo. He will let me try it for a weekend. If I don't like it he will refund my money. If I like it but want the 30 instead, he will order me one and I pay the difference. Frzninvt, You say the AVM 30 is expensive at $3,000.00, isn't the B&K 50 around $3,000.00? Every review that I read about the AVM 30 says that it compares with the $6,000.00 and above processors, and that it is the best buy on the market right now. I may take the dealer up on his offer. I'm going to call him next week and maybe set something up for next weekend. But, I started thinking about the B&K 50, and the Krell Showcase processor when I started reading my manuals again. Another dealer has both of them. I've now read alot of good thing about the Krell. So I may go look at them both there. Then there is the Bryston 1.7 at about $4,600.00. Audiogon has some used ones for around $3,000.00. The reviews on this one say that nothing can come close to the sound quality of the Bryston. Bryston also has a 20 year warranty that is transferable. That opens up the used market. $3,000.00 is about where I set my limit for a processor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frzninvt Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 I got the B&K Ref 50 for $1500 brand new in the box from an authorized local area dealer. The same guy that gave me the reduced price on the NAD T163 that I currently have. Instead of troubling the dealer with the return of the B&K Ref 50 I sold it on AudioGon for $1750. I had the same dilemma as you I could not decide which one that I wanted, that had the features that I wanted, and sounded the way I liked. There was no place around me to listen to one either neither was in the store I had to buy blind. I would still take the NAD unit over the B&K though, either is a fabulous component and much better than a receiver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q-Man Posted October 17, 2004 Author Share Posted October 17, 2004 After reading the manuals, for the forth time, on my five top AV/processor choices I decided that I'll give the Anthem AVM 30 a try. It's the one that excites me the most, and offers the most. Strabo, The crossover selections begin at 25Hz and increase in 5 Hz increments. What speakers and amps are you using the Anthem with? Have you ever used another AV/processor before the Anthem, or did you move up from a receiver? Let me thank everyone for chiming in here. If anyone cares to read about the Anthem products you can find them at www.anthemav.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelerFan Posted October 17, 2004 Share Posted October 17, 2004 There is supposed to be a series II Ref50 coming out. I believe it incorporates 3 notch filters instead of one, adjustable crossover settings for all channels rather than a global one, seperate EQ for all channels among other refinements. Thought I also read where B&K will offer the upgrades to the current REF50 sometime next year. I apologize if I got any of these details wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strabo Posted October 17, 2004 Share Posted October 17, 2004 ---------------- On 10/17/2004 10:17:32 AM Q-Man wrote: Strabo, The crossover selections begin at 25Hz and increase in 5 Hz increments. What speakers and amps are you using the Anthem with? Have you ever used another AV/processor before the Anthem, or did you move up from a receiver? ---------------- I had a Denon 4802 for a month before the AVM-20. Before that was an old Yamaha pro-logic receiver. I did listen to an NAD seperates system that was considerably more expensive than the Anthem gear and I really liked it but I couldn't stretch my budget that far. At the time the AVM-20 had the best features and better sound than anything I had in the past not to mention that I got a good price on it from my local B&M store ($2.5k two years ago). IIRC, the 30 is based on the 20 but with a faster computer for the display and switching, and the display is updated to match the colors and layout of their new Statement pre. I originally used an Anthem PVA-5 for the amp. But in all my auditioning I made the mistake of listening to better sounding systems and was trying to get that sound out of Anthem's entry level amp. So next I picked up a used Lexicon NT512 (made by Bryston) and that was/is a great amp but still not what I was looking for so I dove into tubes for the mains. I auditioned a set of Quicksilver KT-88 mono's for a week and liked the sound tonally, but I couldn't get them to image so they went back. A few months ago (6?) I picked up an AES Superamp DJH and the imaging is much better, but the top end isn't as clean as I'd like. Cleaner than any of my previous SS amps but not exactly what I'm looking for. Still good enough to keep around for a while but I don't see it as my long term answer. The Lexicon is gone now and the PVA-5 handles surround duty with the giant 35wpc Superamp running the mains (for now). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q-Man Posted October 18, 2004 Author Share Posted October 18, 2004 SteelerFan, I just got off of the phone with tech. support at B&K. I talked to someone who knew what they were talking about and they confermed what you said. Thanks alot, now I may be doing some more reasearch. B&K talked about how Anthem uses alot of their ideas and chips. They even used the word "copy". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frzninvt Posted October 18, 2004 Share Posted October 18, 2004 The one thing that I have to say about the folks at B&K, they were always easy to reach by phone in the event that I had a question or issue and the techs knew their stuff. That alone made a big difference to me, my primary drive behind parting with the unit is the tape monitor function did not work the way I would have liked it to. I had to put it into a custom setting and the unit would not remember it when I shut it off and I had to recall it every time and I did not like that. If they would have changed that I would have kept it. I am sure I can still get it for the price I paid for the first one I got, but I have been very pleased with the NAD T163. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelerFan Posted October 18, 2004 Share Posted October 18, 2004 ---------------- On 10/18/2004 11:06:41 AM Q-Man wrote: SteelerFan, I just got off of the phone with tech. support at B&K. I talked to someone who knew what they were talking about and they confermed what you said. Thanks alot , now I may be doing some more reasearch. B&K talked about how Anthem uses alot of their ideas and chips. They even used the word "copy". ---------------- Sorry for the extra homework assignment. Ha Ha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q-Man Posted October 18, 2004 Author Share Posted October 18, 2004 I received my November issue of Sound & Vision tonight. In it is an artical by David Ranada called Preamps with Star Power. The comparison is between the Anthem AVM 30 $3,000.00, Krell Showcase $4,000.00, and Parasound Halo C1 $6,000.00. The last sentence of the review reads, "But when each preamp is judged on it's merits and value for it's price, the Anthem AVM 30 is irresistible. Tomorrow I need to call both B&K and Anthem again. If the new B&K doesn't have bass management for all the inputs like the Anthem then I'll order the Anthem. If the B&K does have this multi channel bass management then I may wait for it to come out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q-Man Posted October 19, 2004 Author Share Posted October 19, 2004 The B&K doesn't have bass management for all the analog inputs, so I guess I'll be going with the Anthem. The Anthem tech. kept me on the phone for 45 minutes just to answer two questions. Really nice and knowledgeable guy. I better not say what he had to say about B&K after hearing what B&K told me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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