Drew in the desert Posted December 10, 2004 Share Posted December 10, 2004 When listening to 2-channel music, I have my RF-35's set to "small" and crossed over at 80Hz. However, when I set them to "large" the subwoofer still plays the low frequencies. This doesn't seem right to me. If the speakers are playing full range, then what is the sub doing? Remeber that I am only talking about 2-channel music, so there is no LFE recorded. One note, when in the system setup, if I set the main speakers to "large" I then have the option to set the sub to "LFE-THX" or "LFE+Main". I chose "LFE-THX", doesn't that mean that the only production from the subwoofer should be LFE? Simply put, when setting your main speakers to "large" and listening in stereo to a CD, should the subwoofer be producing any sound? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted December 10, 2004 Share Posted December 10, 2004 I guess it depends or your receiver. On mine I have the option of turning the sub off in 2 channel. Even with the RF-7's I prefer the sub on in 2 channel. If you want to see what it sounds like subless, just turn the power off to your sub. Carl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew in the desert Posted December 10, 2004 Author Share Posted December 10, 2004 Yeah, I have can just tell the receiver that there is no sub, but that is a pain if I just want to switch quickly. It just doesn't make sense that the sub would be on in a 2 channel setup when the speakers are set to "large". I do prefer listening with the sub on, I just can't figure out why it would be this way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdm56 Posted December 10, 2004 Share Posted December 10, 2004 My receiver (Pioneer Elite VSX-55TXi) also give you the option, in two-channel, of using the sub or not, regardless of whether you select large or small for your main speakers. Maybe yours is that way too. I know these newer A/V receivers can be complicated beasts. I've had mine for over a year, and I still have to consult the manual sometimes! It's cool, though, having all the options, but sometimes I think I'll chuck it all and go back to a nice simple two-channel rig, since about 98% of my listening is to two-channel CD's anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave97 Posted December 11, 2004 Share Posted December 11, 2004 jdm - where do you find the option of using the sub in stereo mode on the 55txi without setting the mains to small? I have had that receiver for 6 months and haven't found where to adjust that setting....and I would love to try it. Any help is, as always, appreciated..... Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sivadselim Posted December 11, 2004 Share Posted December 11, 2004 drew, with your receiver, if you have a digi connection and you want to listen to your 2-channel stuff with no sub the easiest thing to do is to just leave the speakers set to SMALL, but run the receiver in "PURE" mode for 2-channel CD playback. there should be no sub output in that situation and the receiver, although the speakers are set to SMALL for your movies, does not apply any bass management in it's "PURE" mode. try it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdm56 Posted December 12, 2004 Share Posted December 12, 2004 ---------------- On 12/11/2004 12:40:58 PM dave97 wrote: jdm - where do you find the option of using the sub in stereo mode on the 55txi without setting the mains to small? I have had that receiver for 6 months and haven't found where to adjust that setting....and I would love to try it. Any help is, as always, appreciated..... Thanks! ---------------- I'm operating from memory here, so bear with me on this: Doesn't the set-up for speakers give you options like "small, large and full"? I'm not sure if it's called "full", but that sounds kinda right (I haven't messed with this for awhile.) But I recall the wording being a bit vague, probably due to the Japanese to English translation. But in the "full" setting, again, if memory serves, bass was sent to the mains and the sub, for "powerful bass". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minn_male42 Posted December 12, 2004 Share Posted December 12, 2004 ---------------- On 12/12/2004 8:49:55 AM jdm56 wrote: ---------------- On 12/11/2004 12:40:58 PM dave97 wrote: jdm - where do you find the option of using the sub in stereo mode on the 55txi without setting the mains to small? I have had that receiver for 6 months and haven't found where to adjust that setting....and I would love to try it. Any help is, as always, appreciated..... Thanks! ---------------- I'm operating from memory here, so bear with me on this: Doesn't the set-up for speakers give you options like "small, large and full"? I'm not sure if it's called "full", but that sounds kinda right (I haven't messed with this for awhile.) But I recall the wording being a bit vague, probably due to the Japanese to English translation. But in the "full" setting, again, if memory serves, bass was sent to the mains and the sub, for "powerful bass". ---------------- in the manuals here in the u.s. - the settings for the sub are "small", "large", and "plus" The "plus" setting sets your mains to large and also sends low fequency information to your sub as well... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave97 Posted December 12, 2004 Share Posted December 12, 2004 thanks jdm and minn, I know where that option is; I will check it out today; I didn't realize what that setting did! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdm56 Posted December 12, 2004 Share Posted December 12, 2004 Hey Dave, I used to have almost the same set-up as you. I had '98 k-horns, an '03 belle, and a pair of heresy II's, all in oak oil. I STILL have the Pioneer Elite 55TXi and 47Ai. I see you're in Illinois; I'm just next door, in MO. We're even about the same age -- I just turned 48. Maybe I'm your evil twin. Weird, ain't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylanl Posted December 12, 2004 Share Posted December 12, 2004 Can you really call it 2 channel, if you have a sub? Shouldn't it be called 2.1? I always thought 2 channel was just that 2 and not 3. I am not saying listening that way cannot sound better ( I listen that way with my RF7s ) but I would not describe it as pure 2 channel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyKlipschFan Posted December 12, 2004 Share Posted December 12, 2004 Even between a pair of K horns a sub is not necessary.. But I will tell you from time to time it adds a lot.. Sometimes it also takes away from the music selection too. The key is to not add too much at all. Beautiful big sounding K horns in 2 channel. And not on all the time but sometimes (depending on the source) a clean RSW 15 sub.. = Heaven. I would always try it without one to start, and like everyone sais on here... what you like, is what is important. Sometimes at low volumes with k horns, it's nice to round out the lower end with boosting the sub I have found. Just a "tad" of umph. LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted December 12, 2004 Share Posted December 12, 2004 "drew, with your receiver, if you have a digi connection and you want to listen to your 2-channel stuff with no sub the easiest thing to do is to just leave the speakers set to SMALL, but run the receiver in "PURE" mode for 2-channel CD playback. there should be no sub output in that situation and the receiver, although the speakers are set to SMALL for your movies, does not apply any bass management in it's "PURE" mode. excellent suggestion. You should be able to set your speaker size settings and forget them. When listing to stereo, I would think most listeners wouldn't care for the extra 'boom' factor, preferring instead the normal sound field of 2 channels. On my Yamaha RXV2400, in normal Stereo, there is no sub output. I do have a 'Bypass' mode which not only bypasses the sub, but any of the surround effects, and I think (will check) keeps the signal out of the digital domain. Therefore it follows that the bass management system (speaker size switches and xover between mains and sub) would also be taken out of the signal path and your main speakers would receive full range signal, as if they were set to 'Large'. If, for some reason, I DO wish to have music source with SUB, I can use Yamaha's '7-Channel Stereo' mode, which sends to all speakers, does bass management, and sends to SUB without putting any reverb or surround effects. Good Listening, Let us know what you find. Lots of DENON lovers here. Michael - a Yamaha man! Why would you want to listen to music on LP for instance, that is PURE (don't start the LP/CD flame here), then CHOP IT UP INTO TINY BITS, ONLY TO REASSEMBLE IT without doing any processing. The above writer's suggestion to use 'PURE' might do this for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew in the desert Posted December 15, 2004 Author Share Posted December 15, 2004 ---------------- On 12/12/2004 4:23:15 PM colterphoto1 wrote: "drew, with your receiver, if you have a digi connection and you want to listen to your 2-channel stuff with no sub the easiest thing to do is to just leave the speakers set to SMALL, but run the receiver in "PURE" mode for 2-channel CD playback. there should be no sub output in that situation and the receiver, although the speakers are set to SMALL for your movies, does not apply any bass management in it's "PURE" mode. excellent suggestion. You should be able to set your speaker size settings and forget them. When listing to stereo, I would think most listeners wouldn't care for the extra 'boom' factor, preferring instead the normal sound field of 2 channels. On my Yamaha RXV2400, in normal Stereo, there is no sub output. I do have a 'Bypass' mode which not only bypasses the sub, but any of the surround effects, and I think (will check) keeps the signal out of the digital domain. Therefore it follows that the bass management system (speaker size switches and xover between mains and sub) would also be taken out of the signal path and your main speakers would receive full range signal, as if they were set to 'Large'. If, for some reason, I DO wish to have music source with SUB, I can use Yamaha's '7-Channel Stereo' mode, which sends to all speakers, does bass management, and sends to SUB without putting any reverb or surround effects. Good Listening, Let us know what you find. Lots of DENON lovers here. Michael - a Yamaha man! Why would you want to listen to music on LP for instance, that is PURE (don't start the LP/CD flame here), then CHOP IT UP INTO TINY BITS, ONLY TO REASSEMBLE IT without doing any processing. The above writer's suggestion to use 'PURE' might do this for you. ---------------- Thanks for the suggestions, guys. But, I've done exactly what you suggested, which is the way I thought it would work in the first place. However, it seems that with the Denon receiver when set to "Direct" or "Pure Direct", it only bypasses the Tone Controls and not the bass management. This doesn't seem right to me. If you set the receiver to play back in 2-channel, it should do exactly that. Not 2.1 . Anybody have a Denon that know what I am talking about? Thanks again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sivadselim Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 a digitally connected source, run through the receiver's "pure direct" mode, should not have any sub output, no matter what your speaker size settings are. and the front speakers will receive a full-range signal in that instance, even if set to SMALL. at least, this is true of my 3803. perhaps the 4802 manages bass somewhat differently, however i would not expect the "pure direct" mode to be any different; there should be no bass management involved. now, an analog-connected player, 2-channel or 6-channel, is a different story. or if your sub is connected to the front pre-outs or speaker-level outs, instead of a dedicated sub/lfe out; that's different, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sivadselim Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 ---------------- On 12/15/2004 9:51:16 AM sivadselim wrote: a digitally connected source, run through the receiver's "pure direct" mode, should not have any sub output, no matter what your speaker size settings are. ---------------- hey, drew. this is incorrect. sorry. i screwed up the explanation a bit. DEPENDING UPON YOUR SPEAKER SIZE SETTINGS, you may OR may not have sub output in your receiver's "pure direct" mode. THAT SAID, however, what IS CORRECT is that the fronts DO indeed receive a full-range signal in the receiver's "pure direct" mode, NO MATTER WHAT THE SPEAKER SIZE SETTINGS ARE. SO............................. WHAT IS VERY IMPORTANT THAT I LEFT OUT IS THAT in order to listen to the front speakers ONLY in "pure direct" mode, you must turn the subwoofer level all the way down (as if you're adjusting the sub level with the remote) until it says "OFF". the receiver will then remember that subwoofer setting of "OFF" in "pure direct" mode. your fronts will then play full-range BY THEMSELVES with no sub accompaniment. now, plain ol' "direct" mode DOES apply bass management, however you've got it set up to apply it, to the fronts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rvincerob1 Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 I have the Yamaha rxv-800 a very good receiver. I listen to 2 channel music with the sub on. A lot of your new cd's have LF notes on them that cannot be played or heard from your main speakers. I guess it just depends on your receiver, whether or not you can turn the sub off. On my receiver you can switch so the sub won't be heard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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