verso Posted January 1, 2005 Share Posted January 1, 2005 Hey everyone, I was curious as to whether .ogg files are really better than .mp3 files - and would like to hear what you all have to say about this. I have compared two songs - the same song, one encoded in the ogg format and the other encoded in the mp3 format. I cannot hear a difference. Here let me make this more clear. File A: VBR MP3 File B: OGG VORBIS So File A is an mp3 with a high bitrate. Or it is supposed to have a high bitrate (224kbps) but Windows Media Player shows it playing at only 185 kbps. Also File A is 9.16 MB! File B is an ogg file with a bitrate of about 128kbps. It is 6.6 MB. Now 3MB may not sound like a lot, but I have over 400+ songs that I have downloaded from that website all in the vbr .mp3 format! I could save a lot of space if I were to make the switch to .ogg files. But I wouldn't be able to use WMP anymore as it does not support .ogg files (and I love WMP!) Heh. All that aside, I cannot hear a difference in sound quality. Can any of you? - Steven Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klipsch-enough-said Posted January 1, 2005 Share Posted January 1, 2005 credited for the dumbest thing ive ever heard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
verso Posted January 1, 2005 Author Share Posted January 1, 2005 klipsch-enough-said: "credited for the dumbest thing ive ever heard." (Wonders if anyone actually likes klipsch-enough-said. Heh.) (cough TROLL cough) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted January 1, 2005 Share Posted January 1, 2005 There are plenty of places that do comparisons to all the different encoders, using different bit rates, etc. This probably isn't the best place to ask. Here you will get personal opinion (which may or may not be accurate). I have tried FLAC, but you only get about a 50% reduction in file size. For compatibility, I use the LAME encoder (current) and encode at 320kbits. If you are happy with it, go for it. If you use VBR, Windows Media Player will not read the correct bit rate. Sometimes not even the correct time length for a song. Winamp does sorta the same thing because you have chosen VARIABLE bit rate. Makes the song smaller. What encoder for MP3 did you use? Cheers, Marvel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3dzapper Posted January 1, 2005 Share Posted January 1, 2005 Steven, What type of turntable do you use for oog? Dam I'm old! ____________________________________________________________ (this is the surface of the water) (way over my head!) Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted January 1, 2005 Share Posted January 1, 2005 Rick, Different eincoding schemes. ogg, mp3, flac, and others. Each aims for different outcomes. Just like wav is an encoding format. Most of the others are lossy, meaning they toss some information to make the file size smaller. flac is not a lossy format, so it should retain the original's quality while still making the file smaller. They all have some tradeoff. Marvel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
verso Posted January 1, 2005 Author Share Posted January 1, 2005 Marvel, Thank you for the response! And as it turns out, WMP won't play the Ogg file format. Because I am not a fan of Winamp, nor a fan of Foobar2000 (well, I would be if it had easy-to-install skins) - I guess even if ogg files are better then mp3 files there isn't much I can do about it. - Steven Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted January 1, 2005 Share Posted January 1, 2005 Stephen, I'm not a great fan of winamp either, but I give it a fling every once in awhile to see if I can get along with it. There are some things I don't like about WMP too. I did use Ultra Player for quite some time, but it won't handle ogg files either. It is skinable (and you can make your own as well -- the ability is built into the player). www.ultraplayer.com It is pretty nice. Marvel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
verso Posted January 1, 2005 Author Share Posted January 1, 2005 Marvel, Ultra Player, eh? I'll probably give it a try! If you ask me, WinAmp is just too crowded. You know? You have an EQ over here, bass and treble nobs over there, playlist at the bottom, some other useless featuers that are stuck inbetween... Heh. It's just such a nonsensical layout. And granted a lot of that (or rather all of that) has to do with the skin. But I've tried a whole lot and they all have their flaws. I like WMP 10. I just wish it supported FLAC and OGG file types. Thanks for the reply! - Steven (Stephen? - I kind of like that spelling better the more I see it written. Heh.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skonopa Posted January 2, 2005 Share Posted January 2, 2005 Personallly, I cannot stand WMP, and use WinAmp almost exclusively. Of course, I've been using WinAmp for years (since well before NullSoft has sold-out to AOL). So, I am pretty much use to it. One thing to keep in mind with Ogg Vorbis is that there are no hardware MP3 players that support it either (at least non that I am aware of). Truly a shame, as it would be nice to see wider support for a truly free audio compression standard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meuge Posted January 2, 2005 Share Posted January 2, 2005 iRiver music players support OGG as far as I know. They also make the only portable player that has a digital out (mini-optical). As for mp3 vs. Vorbis, it's a no contest comparison. Another format you might want to look into is Musepack (.mpc files). At 320 kbit .ogg or .mpc files are frequently indistinguishable from the originals on my equipment (about 74% (+/- 5%) of the time according to blind tests). For long-term storage though, I would recommend using WAV or FLAC files (no compression) from direct CD rips. With the prices of storage being so low, it's silly to try and save space by losing quality. And with the computer being the best source of digital music delivery, it's a great excuse to pack up all those CDs away. It's actually kind of funny - people spend hundreds (thousands for some) of dollars on reclocking DACs, when simply ripping the CDs to a computer and using a good digital out into a regular DAC will do the job, while also giving you a virtually unlimited jukebox. I like Foobar2000 as a music player. It's compact, uncluttered, and with its kernel streaming technology, it stops the music from being resampled from 44.1 to 48KHz by DirectSound or by the sound card software. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
verso Posted January 2, 2005 Author Share Posted January 2, 2005 I really can't tell the difference between a high bitrate MP3 and an OGG file - but I hear that ogg files are better (shrugs). FLAC, eh? Yeah - I hear FLAC is supposed to be the best quality really because it is uncompressed. Just curious about what you people thought. All of my Grateful Dead collection is in high bitrate MP3's. I guess that's ok though because if I had them all as .ogg files I wouldn't be able to burn them to CDs as I often do (well at least not as easily - I use Nero). - Steven Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skonopa Posted January 2, 2005 Share Posted January 2, 2005 ---------------- On 1/2/2005 2:45:04 AM verso wrote: FLAC, eh? Yeah - I hear FLAC is supposed to be the best quality really because it is uncompressed. ---------------- FLAC is a lossless compression algortithm. That means there is no information thrown away. The downside is that it results in larger files, though. MP3, Ogg Vorbis, etc are lossy compression. In order to get better compression rates, information is thrown away when the music is compressed into an MP3 file. Usually the information is in the very low bass and/or highest frequency ranges. That is why MP3 files often seem to lack good solid bass, because the bass has been thrown away. However, it does help with the making the file as small as possible. Typically 1 minute of full CD quality music (44khz at 16bits) will take up 10 megs of space in uncompressed .WAV format. I think FLAC runs about 5 megs/minute Typical 128 kbps MP3 file runs around 1 meg/minute of music. Typical 320 kbps MP3 file runs around 2 megs/minute of music. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
verso Posted January 2, 2005 Author Share Posted January 2, 2005 Steven, Nice name. Heh. Thanks for the reply. Yeah, FLAC files are HUGE. Although I do have an 80 GB hard drive - one full show will take up about a GIG! Yikes. But Ogg files sound pretty good to me. According to Winamp they play at about 128kbps. Although, according to Winamp my VBR MP3's play at about the same. (shrugs). Actually the bitrate fluctuates... - Steven Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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