fini Posted August 12, 2001 Share Posted August 12, 2001 Yup! Really did it! Proud new owner, with a problem and a mystery (to me). Several, actually. The problem is that neither tweeter works. I wasn't thorough enough on first inspection to notice (too excited). The price was right, though ($650), and I probably would have bought them anyway! I read many other posts here on similar problems, so I began troubleshooting. I opened up the backs, and checked all the connections, all snug. I should mention at this point that when I arrived at the seller's house, he had the backs off and was fiddling around with stuff (first clue, huh?). He was attatching the tweeter wires to the crossovers. He was very appologetic about not having them ready to inspect, but I was thrilled to be able to see inside these big monsters, checking out the components, proud of myself for being able to figure out that they were I's, not II's, thinking about what it would be like to let everyone here know about them. I have the highest regard for the "family" here at the board, and I was anxious to show off my new babies. Well, anyway, he explained to me that he enjoyed tweeking, and had been using some different tweeters which he had outboard, and was returning it to "stock". "Okay," I thought. "I guess that's reasonable." When all was put back and hooked up, they sounded "allright" (I didn't realize the tweeters weren't working), but thought the jury-rigged placement and weird room accoustics were at fault. I could play with them at home. We loaded them in my van, and I was off. Wow! I own Cornwalls!! Back to my troubleshooting. I was looking around inside at the tweeters (K-77-M), and noticed that there were four mounting holes about 3/4" outside the footprint of the k-77-m flange (clue#2). In other words, at some point something with a larger flange had been mounted where the tweeter now was. The tweeters that I have, have outside dimensions of aprox. 5 1/4" X 2". Would any other tweeter have been used here? I noticed that new spade lugs had been crimped onto the tweeter leads (clue #3). I removed the tweeters and tested them with a multimeter. The little needle didn't move, so I guess (from comparing my situation to others here) that I need new diaphragms. Should I call Klipsch, or get them (as someone suggested) from Electrovoice? (I think it was EV. I'll search again after this post). Substantially different price? Any other parts needed? The other mysteries involve the speakers themselves. They are Cornwall type C-BR, serial #'s 20T004 and 20T005. Made in 1979. according to the charts. K-55-V squawkers, K-33-E woofers. The odd thing is they are constructed with exposed, raw plywood edges. I have seen reference to these, but they mentioned a "D" in the type (i.e. CD-BR). There are a couple of other markings on the labels: a "5" in the upper right corner, and an "E" in the lower left. Any clue what these mean? As a finish carpenter, the raw edges bother me, and I am considering some modifications, possibly veneering them, possibly the whole speaker, although I've seen enough episodes of "The Antique Roadshow" to know there is too much of a good thing! I have some other ideas for visual only mods (no holes, no glue). I'll let you know, if anyone is interested. Another thing I'd like to know more about are the Type-B crossovers. I searched the board, and found no references. Man, are there any other Klipsch speakers with as many varriations as the Cornwall? Someone should write a book (I'm serious!). Getting these has really given me a new sense of the history and legend of Klipsch, as well as a new sense of belonging to the Klipsch family. Geez, I even went back an searched for the pictures from the famous Visit to Klipschland. My kids loved it when I called them over to the computer: "Look! That guy is Doug Drake! He's always really helpful and courteous with his posts. Great sense of humor. And look! That guy in the back is Al! Remember when I told you about what crossovers do...?" If I'm fortunate enough to be included in subsequent trips, I'll bring an inflatable raft to explore that basement. Maybe scuba gear... Sorry for the long post, had a lot to get out there. All replies gladly accepted! Good morning! fini Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Cornell Posted August 12, 2001 Share Posted August 12, 2001 Fini Hello buddy, dont get discouraged !! I paid $800.00 for a set of cornwalls, that had blown tweeters, and had to spend another $267.00 for a set!! Diaphrams are cheaper, i bought the whole tweeter! I still have the blown ones, im ganna fix them someday for spares!! I went to an audiophile store here in Denver, Gold Sound, and was lucky he had a set of the Klipsch tweeters, the only thing about them is, they are EV not Klipsch stamped!! Round magnet! But they sound the same, and didnt complain!! What i did with my cornwalls, is lightly sand them, stained them, and acrylic clear coated them!! One in a while i have to glue the lamination back on, but thats what i expect for them being 20 years old!! I really hope that the guy didnt cut out your tweeter hole in your cornwalls, that would suck!! Can you still fit the original tweeter in it!! People are trying to replace these tweeters, i really dont understand why, they do a lot more than most people think they do!! That little tweeter, against a 15 inch woofer, and the size of that midrange!! Pepole also blow the tweeters up with Equalizers, pushing them past their possible limit!! Or they turn the treble all the way up to push them that way, that would blow the tweeters up!! My tweeters were blown, and the rest of the speakers were fine, crossovers ETC!! When you find the diaphram, let me know where to get them, EV might be the best, i heard Klipsch diaphrams arent as good as original!! You still go a great deal for $650.00, welcome to the club, and yes for that price i would of still bought them myself!! Take care Fini Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipschguy Posted August 12, 2001 Share Posted August 12, 2001 Fini, 1) Don't despair. The blown tweeters are easy to fix. Do a search for "tweeter diaphragms". I have replaced them before and it's not bad - you just need to pay close attention to detail so you don't mess up. I posted the diaphragm replacement steps in reply to a recent post - a search should find it. EV diaphragms are about $22 each and are correct (Klipsch will charge $80 per diaph. for the same thing). The small holes where the replacement tweeter was can filled and sanded to be imperceptable if they "bug you." 2) CBR is the correct designation for Cornwalls with raw birch cabinets (don't frown, that is nine ply, void free, baltic birch plywood - the "Cadillac"). An excellent veneer job, in something like rosewood, should ENHANCE the value of your speakers. Klipsch recommends getting some kind of finish to seal the raw cabinets anyway - veneer falls in that category in a most excellent way. Raw cabinets were offered by Klipsch as a way to save money, not intended to be left raw (unless of course you like it that way). 3) The B crossover is a good crossover with slopes that are less steep than the later ones (frequencies = 600hz and 6000hz). As higher powered amps came into play, PWK went to steeper slopes to help prevent frying a high frequency driver under demanding loads. The later crossovers, while they may protect a tweeter better, do not necessarily SOUND better. There is certainly something to be said about simplicity - less filters in the critical circuit, minimize phase shift problems, et cetera. My Cornwalls have the B networks, and I've driven the speakers hard with high, CLEAN wattage and never had a problem. Note: I've never blown a tweeter. The diaphagms I replaced were NOT my own, they were my brother's Cornwall tweeters which were blown when he aquired his pair (also unknown to him). Now they work perfectly. Old, leaking output caps on old amplifiers and receivers produce (leak) some DC voltage, which will cook a tweeter quickly. 4) One last thing, I recommend you carefully check the phasing of each driver at the both the crossover and the speaker and the input - all are clearly marked, but when somebody has been hooking and unhooking wires, you never know if they got it backwards. 5) Any time spent on these speakers is worth it, as they will last a lifetime if cared for. Congrats on your purchase. Keep us posted. KG This message has been edited by Klipschguy on 08-12-2001 at 12:30 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted August 12, 2001 Author Share Posted August 12, 2001 Jim! Thanks for accepting me into the club! I guess as soon as I replace the diaphragms you'll teach me the secret handshake? A little side note for Jim: I think replacing the diaphragm would be easier than getting a vasectomy, if ya know what I mean... KG! Thanks for the tips. I'll be ordering the diaphragms tomorrow. The cabinets do have a varnish on them (mellowed yellow-probably from playing too many Donovan records). The part I'm not crazy about is seeing the edge grain at the butt joints on the tops of the boxes. That's my only (Baltic) *****. Don't most of the raw birch boxes have mitered corners and edge banding? Now if I can only find my way out of this speaker... fini Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipschguy Posted August 12, 2001 Share Posted August 12, 2001 Fini, All the raw birch cabinets I've seen have butt joints. KG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted August 13, 2001 Author Share Posted August 13, 2001 Ah-ha! Thanks! fini Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Cornell Posted August 13, 2001 Share Posted August 13, 2001 Fini Your not ganna let that one go huh LOL!!! Klipschguy wish i met you before spending $300.00 on tweeters!! LOL tell me how to order the diaphrams from EV, im ganna do it!! Also still have the spare woofer here!! Regards Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted August 13, 2001 Author Share Posted August 13, 2001 Jim, I enjoy weaving recurring themes into my posts. They are, after all, called threads! I gotta get back to my patch cord quilting project with Ma... Best regards, fini Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eq_shadimar Posted August 13, 2001 Share Posted August 13, 2001 Hey Fini - Looks like you got my twins!! The Cornwalls I just got last week are also C-BR, 1979, S/N 22T119 and 22T120. Mine were finished with a black formica look product. Not too fancy but nice and durable. They do look very nice and fit in well with the other black wquipment I have. Too bad about the tweeters but I would say definatly worth the time to replace. I think you will love the Cornwalls! Welcome to the club!! ------------------ Main System - CORNWALLS (circa '79 yippe) RC-3 RS-3's (white) SVS 20-39CS Harman Kardon AVR 510 Hafler P505 (running bridged 800W/4 ohms for sub) ProMedia 4.2 v400 for PC Bedroom - KG4's or RF-3's (haven't decided yet) Harman Kardon AVR 20 MKII Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Adams Posted August 13, 2001 Share Posted August 13, 2001 Congrats fini and welcome to Club Cornwall! You know, if us Cornwall owners keep talking up these wonderful speakers maybe others out there will make noise with enough THD that the LLC will say, "ALRIGHT - enough already. We'll consider adding them to the Heritage line again." OTOH - that would lessen our exclusivity and diminish our snobishness. Anyhow, sorry to hear about your tweeter problems. Hopefully Klipschguy's suggestion of checking the wiring will make things right. When you do finally get to hear them with all components working, you'll be hooked. These things are something else. BTW, after reading about the problems you & others have had with their Cornwalls, I count my blessings that all I'm having to deal with it cosmetic issues. What I find amazing is how well mine perform after having sat idle for almost 10 years! The other thing that blows me away is that these things were designed and built long before massive SS amps, DD & DTS 5.1, DVD, CD's, etc., yet they can handle anything that modern technology can throw at them and do it with the best of the new breed of speakers. A real testiment to the genius of PWK IMHO. Have a great time with your new sonic friends. Post some pics if you can (hell if I can anybody can do it) I'd love to see your Cornwalls. Tom Adams Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipschguy Posted August 13, 2001 Share Posted August 13, 2001 Jim, Try Electrovoice at: 952-884-4051 or 800-392-3497 Tell them you need diaphragms for T-35 tweeters. KG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Phillips Posted August 13, 2001 Share Posted August 13, 2001 I was very excited when I bought my '77 Klipschorns. I can say without a single doubt I was just as excited when I bought my '81 Cornwalls(walnut) this past weekend. I'm happy to be a member of Club Cornwall too. If Klipsch were to ever bring them back,I hope that they will use the same drivers that are in the Klipschorn and La Scala of current time.That's just my opinion. I love mine so much it's hard to decide which end of the house to be in.Well the computer is in the bedroom,so for the moment,I'll listen to my Cornwalls. Decisions decisions decisions Fixin the tweets isn't hard and cheaper than buying the whole thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Cornell Posted August 13, 2001 Share Posted August 13, 2001 Thank you Klipschguy, ganna call them tomorrow!! Steve, youll have to welcome me to the K-horn club early next year!! Your setup looks really nice Steve, If i would of gotten an extra tax return i would of bought your Heresys Bummer!!! Regards Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted August 13, 2001 Author Share Posted August 13, 2001 Ordered the new diaphragms today from a very nice gal at Electrovoive. $21.70 each plus $8.00 S+H. I can't wait! The out-of-control vintage binge continued today with my acquisition of a Sansui 8080DB receiver. It has about the same footprint as the Cornwall at about half the weight. I got it at the local Salvation Army for $60 with a 90 day warrantee. Anyone out there have any experiences with these? KG-I have a single Heresy II in raw birch. Do you think maybe only the earliest raw birch Cornwalls and Heresys had butt joinery? I know others here are interested in the history and lineage of the various Klipsch lines (ya with me, Tom?). I'D buy the book. Heck, I'd even help produce it!! On a similar subject, I'd like to see some tutorials on the website. So many similar questions get asked (by the likes of me), wouldn't it be nice to be able to refer newbies and those coming along to subjects like "Replacing a Tweeter Diaphragm," "Effects of Speaker Placement" and "Getting Your Grill Off." fini Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan-OH!~ Posted August 14, 2001 Share Posted August 14, 2001 WOW, Cornwall procurement, has really been poppin.. that must be 3 newly acquired sets, just amongst participants on this board....., WELCOME ALL to the "club" TOO bad EV doesn't have some sort of low vol. discounts..., sounds like quite a few of us were set for some new T-35 diaphrams...., I've been procrastinating on the purchase of some for some time.. ....wondering about the diff.s between the EV's and the much pricier Klipsch versions.... (reportedly with some extra backing ring....???), I couldn't decide on which to go for...., but now I think I'll pull the trigger on some of these reasonably priced EV's.. (anyone got the handle on the Atlas Diaphrams for the squawker???? I'd like to refresh those also....) fini, don't feel too bad not detecting the open Tweeter, ..if that B crossover was done like many of the rest.., the squawker is actually left open ended (not limited on it's high end output....) and can do a pretty good job of covering for the Tweeter...., so upon an initial audition, it could have sounded "normal". ....there sure has been an influx of Cornwall purchases and associated discussions, 'round here of late... Dan-OH!~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipschguy Posted August 14, 2001 Share Posted August 14, 2001 Fini, I've seen butt joints on late 80's Heresy II's, 1980 Cornwalls, 1977 La Scalas, mid 70's K-horns. These are all I can recall off hand. I've never seen mitered raw birch cabinets, but that doesn't mean Klipsch never made them that way. Interstingly, my 1977 walnut veneered Cornwalls have mitered baltic birch edges. It could be your Cornwalls were originally destined for veneer, but never were. Heck, who knows - just speculating. Dan-Oh!, When I took the original diaphragms out of the K77 tweeters they looked just like the new ones, except were a little darker in color (may darken with age? smoking environment?) Same stiffness, size, shape and texture. Look like a piece of molded (shaped) phenolic impregnated cloth with a voice coil glued in the center. The cardboard ring inside that goes up against the diaphragms are reused. Interestingly, the old blown 25 year old diaphragms looked pristine - I wouldn't recommend replacing any diaphragms that work fine. KG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted September 21, 2001 Author Share Posted September 21, 2001 Well, it's been 5 weeks and, apparently, the replacement diaphragms shipped today! Depending on the mail, I should have them by Christmas, and installed by plantin' time... fini Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptnBob Posted October 3, 2001 Share Posted October 3, 2001 Welcome to the Club! I hope you enjoy your Cornwalls as much as I've enjoyed mine. I've had to replace an embarrassingly large number of tweeter diaphrams on my Cornwalls and the LaScalas at the college where I used to teach. (Kids would blow the tweeter fuses, then wrap them in gum wrappers and jam them back in the fuse holders for another few minutes of high frequencies...) It's an easy fix if you're handy with a soldering iron. I don't know how it is now, but it used to be the replacement diaphrams from Klipsch came already assembled on a new front plate, while the E-V part was simply the voice coil and diaphram, and you had to mount and align it yourself. I've also heard the difference between the Klipsch K-77 and the E-V T-35 is the K-77s were tested at the Klipsch factory to meet a stiffer set of specifications. The ones which weren't "up to scratch" were sent back to Electro-Voice and presumably went out to the world as T-35s. I bought my Cornwalls (CD-R)new in 1974 from the late lamented Music Box in Wellesley, MA. They too feature butt joints and appear to be made of pine plywood - complete with football plugs. They still sound great, though. Capt'n Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted October 3, 2001 Author Share Posted October 3, 2001 Ahoy, Cap'n. Bob (I hope you made those students address you as such)!! I've got the diaphragms in hand! Now to just get a date (with the Cornwalls, mind you-- I AM married to Mrs. Fini)! I've got a window replacement/remodel project under my belt (ouch!), AND (!!!) I'm trying to post more exclamation marks than Jim Cornell (I love ya, you big Cornwall nut)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! fini p.s. ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Cornell Posted October 4, 2001 Share Posted October 4, 2001 Fini LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! How are ya buddy, ive got a new mod for ya, go to updating older speakers, cornwall hotwired, check it out!! Regards Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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