maxg Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 This TT thing never ends. I am now considering pairing 2 items from different suppliers to produce a TT that will either be about the best in the world or a total and unmitigated disaster - I cant tell which - I have not found anyone who has ever tried it. As follows: Of all the tables I have looked at to date the one that seems to really capture peoples imagination is the Verdier: Info at http://jcverdiervalvevinyl.online.fr/platineV/platineV.html For those not in the know this is an almost unique design it that the platter is suspended by magentism effectively isolating it entirely from the world outside. The clever part of the design - to my way of thinking - it that this is done whilst retaining the high mass design. In theory you end with a suspended high mass table - or, rather, a table with the benefits of both approaches. The problem is that the one that I have found is sans arm (and it is 4100 Euros - but that is not totally beyond the pail I suppose). What arm? Well - the most interesting arm I have found (again used) is this: Review at: http://www.stereophile.com//analogsourcereviews/443/index.html The Airtangent arm. This arm uses compressed air to create a frictionless track on which rides the short arm and cartridge. Being a linear design it reads the info from the vinyl in the same manor as the vinyl is cut - and at least in theory - is a better way to perform this function than a standard arm. Price is not exactly an advantage here either. It is 2500 Euros. That would mean the total system comes out at 6,600 Euros using my existing Shelter 901. In theory this could be the most isolated system of all time. Arm and cartridge are floating on a bed of air - platter on a Maglev type suspension. Fascinating aint it - but will it work? I would be more than a little POed to discover it dont - but I would be equally Poed to discover that I was so close to putting together something that could blow anything else ever made out of the water. Is ten past eleven too early to start drinking? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicholtl Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 Goodness Max, you certainly are inspecting some ultra high-end, exquisite, and beautiful looking turntables. You're the one who educated me, so obviously I have no wisdom to share in regards to this. I only wanted to chime in to wish you good luck and remember, enjoy the ride. It's the process, not the destination. Well, on second thought, in this hobby, it's the destination. Which negates my point. Which renders me speechless. It's 1:15am where I am. I'm going to pour myself a stiff drink... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai2000 Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 Max, I am sure you won't regret getting the Verdier. I cannot comment on the arm, sorry, but I have read something along the lines that such arms might not be easy to set up/maintain. I suppose the TT pic is from an 'official' Verdier website. Well, what's wrong with using the arm displayed? I know two people who have paired the Verdier with an SME 3012R and both are very happy (one owner uses an Ortofon Rohmann, the other a Koetsu cartridge). I have heard the first combo and I cannot imagine any desire to upgrade (unless you want to try a different cartridge - not because it ain't good, but for a different flavour ). Or why not try the SME 'V' (though I am not sure if they produce a 'long' version of it)? Wolfram Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 With that magnetically suspended platter, I am guessing the record will not skip when the little tike bounces the playball off the plinth? How is the magnetic field providing this suspension isolated from the highly sensitive cartridge (or is this not an issue?)? Looks quite beautiful there, Max! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnalOg Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 Buy it, try it. You're buying used, the worse possible senario the arm does'nt mate well, sell and try another, go with the more conventional design. Do it I want to hear your take on that beauty. Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 Max, You seem to have way too much fun searching and gazing to settle on one record player forever. I'd recommend you buy something that will hold its value on resale. But then again, I wouldn't buy anything if I were you, if you are likely to move into new quarters soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxg Posted January 13, 2005 Author Share Posted January 13, 2005 Nicho, Cheers - whatever I know I do not seem to know enough to sort this one out. Wolfram, The dicotomy - the perfect table or the perfect arm - or both, or even, I suppose - neither. Fini, "How is the magnetic field providing this suspension isolated from the highly sensitive cartridge (or is this not an issue?)?" Good question. The answer is that is does not appeat to be an issue on this table - the why is more tricky - I have no idea. Analog, I am almost there - but SWMBO has required some severe talking into this and I think she would certainly kill me if I were to turn around and say - Whoops - wrong arm - just off to sell this and get another one to try - especially if there are any losses involved. Paul, Of course looking is fun - it is a major part of this hobby is it not? However, as good as this process is I do plan to choose from the myriad options in front of me - possibly today as this is actually my 40th. As soon as I do decide (work permitting - been a very heavy week thus far) I will let you all know. Photos will follow thereafter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMcGoo Posted January 13, 2005 Share Posted January 13, 2005 Max, Happy 40th! Good luck on your turntable decision. Many audio decisions are a coin toss, even after careful analysis. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai2000 Posted January 13, 2005 Share Posted January 13, 2005 Indeed, Max HAPPY BIRTHDAY...... and an an SME would not disappoint at all! Wolfram Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boomac Posted January 13, 2005 Share Posted January 13, 2005 Happy 40th Max Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxg Posted January 13, 2005 Author Share Posted January 13, 2005 Thanks for the birthday wishes. Wolfram, The SME is certainly a consideration if I go for this table as the one in question is set up for exactly that currently. I think that the SME is a medium to high mass arm. If so - it should be an excellent match to the Shelter...if I go the verdier route. Let us suppose that I am down to 3 options here: 1. The Clearaudio Master Solution with the Souther arm. 2. The Acoustic Solid "One" with the Tangent air arm. 3. The Verdier table with an arm (maybe even my existing Project 9 to start with - that would make this the least expensive option). I am discounting the option at the beginning of this thread (verdier/tangent) - too much boldly going for me - I cant lose sight of the fact that whatever the joys of playing with the equipment I am chosing this to listen to music and not satisfy my technical curiosity - especially for the money we are talking about. Frankly I am at a total loss to choose. There is appeal in each of the 3 options. If it comes right down to it I am not at all sure there will be much difference between any of these options sonically at the end of the day - factoring in the setup issues and so on. If that is the case, something I am inwardly discussing as I type, then the choice will be based on which dealer I prefer - that one is a no brainer for me - and you will be seeing pictures of the Clearaudio shortly. Decision pending. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai2000 Posted January 13, 2005 Share Posted January 13, 2005 Somehow I guess it'll be the Clearaudio . What I am really curious about, though, is the following: suppose one could compare identical setups (i.e. cartridge and arm) and 'just' try one of those (pretty costly) TTs in comparison to a 'decent' but perhaps more affordable TT. How much of a sonic difference would there be? Aside: in a sense I am glad I have never been able to try this as funds are kind of low at the moment .... Wolfram Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted January 13, 2005 Share Posted January 13, 2005 ---------------- On 1/13/2005 6:08:03 AM dubai2000 wrote: What I am really curious about, though, is the following: suppose one could compare identical setups (i.e. cartridge and arm) and 'just' try one of those (pretty costly) TTs in comparison to a 'decent' but perhaps more affordable TT. How much of a sonic difference would there be? ---------------- Depends: Would it be a double-blind test? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai2000 Posted January 13, 2005 Share Posted January 13, 2005 Don't know, let's assume I cannot see which TT is being used..... Wolfram Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxg Posted January 13, 2005 Author Share Posted January 13, 2005 Wolfram, It is a bit like asking what is the difference between a meal at burger king and a meal in a posh restaurant. Everything and nothing in reality. To get a bit more specific lets ask what I expect from this purchase: 1. Higher quality of manufacture / better components and materials / better fit and finish and finally more of an event when listening (visual impact). Translate some of the above into sonics and I hope to find blacker background - approaching CD (retaining the sonic qualities of vinyl that my ear approves of), more clearly defined imaging and soundstage, greater precision and clarity in the presentation of the music, the tone of singers, violins etc and more bass. I would additionally expect greater isolation from external factors that disturb the current system. Sounds like a lot when viewed like that - but in reality it is all incremental. There cannot be a dramatic change IMHO simply because the current setup plays so well to my ears (and those of a variety of others who have come to listen). Add to all of that the simple fact that I will expect the unit to be built to last - say 50 years or so at a minimum - this is something I want my daughter to inherit! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted January 13, 2005 Share Posted January 13, 2005 Is today your birthday, Max? How did I miss that? Happy birthday, old man! 40?? Hell, buy 'em all! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxg Posted January 13, 2005 Author Share Posted January 13, 2005 ---------------- On 1/13/2005 8:58:50 AM fini wrote: Is today your birthday, Max? How did I miss that? Happy birthday, old man! 40?? Hell, buy 'em all! ---------------- I will pass your instructions onto SWMBO - thank Gregg! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai2000 Posted January 13, 2005 Share Posted January 13, 2005 Max, I can understand you very well (!), but I am not sure which part of the equation is most vital: TT, arm or cartridge?....I know, ideally speaking all three....but in real life....? Anyway, I am looking forward to reading more about your vinyl upgrade. Wolfram Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymd Posted January 13, 2005 Share Posted January 13, 2005 Happy 40th Max!!! So when do I get to hear your Basis review?????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxg Posted January 13, 2005 Author Share Posted January 13, 2005 Gary (and Larry), I am ashamed to say I never made it to hear a Basis. Simply not enough time in the day or days in week to get round to hearing all the options. At least take heart from the fact that it was not the only one that got dropped without a proper hearing: Acoustic Signature, Basis, VPI Scoutmaster (plus?), Linn, Nottingham and Transrotor all got eliminated - probably unfairly, or fell by the wayside, simply due to lack of time and energy for an audition. Others were eliminated on what was probably a poor setup rather than a poor product. For my own sanity I needed to boil down the list to 3 options - which I did today. My choice is between these options alone - although I am relatively confident that they represent about as good a sound as I can get for my money. Finally I think Wolfram was right - he is starting to know me rather well considering we have only ever conversed on this forum. My decision is made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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