edwinr Posted January 29, 2005 Share Posted January 29, 2005 The best dynamic range I've measured in my room with Klipschorns driven by a high quality 50 watt per channel solid state amplifier is around 20 db. Average listening levels measuring about 85 to 87 db then peaking at 105 to 107 db. So subjectively that's a fairly 'normal' listening level for me to listen to a jazz ensemble and a female vocalist. The peaks really surprised me. I didn't think I was playing my music that loud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tkot Posted January 29, 2005 Author Share Posted January 29, 2005 ---------------- On 1/29/2005 6:40:47 PM edwinr wrote: The best dynamic range I've measured in my room with Klipschorns driven by a high quality 50 watt per channel solid state amplifier is around 20 db. Average listening levels measuring about 85 to 87 db then peaking at 105 to 107 db. So subjectively that's a fairly 'normal' listening level for me to listen to a jazz ensemble and a female vocalist. The peaks really surprised me. I didn't think I was playing my music that loud. ---------------- edwiner.... noi...but 50 watts per channnel. the measurements i took today were in 2.2 my cornwalls driven by a pair of 1200 watt amps and my yamaha subs(2 cabs / 4,15 inch drivers) driven by a 1000x2 pro amp and i got a 50+ dynamic??? v.s. your k-horns at 20 db??? you should try some better recordings!!! or a bigger amp, or amps remember the engineer who said more power is better??? jay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artto Posted January 29, 2005 Share Posted January 29, 2005 ---------------- On 1/29/2005 6:20:01 PM analogman wrote: I am diappointed that my "take" on life offends. It was intended, A JOKE. Sorry it was lost on you. With regards, Analogman ---------------- Ah, the old "joke" alibi to try and get out of it (AGAIN). No sir, the "joke" is on you. Your name says it all, and your posts consistently support it. The bias is quite apparent. Humor. It is a difficult concept, no? With no regards, artto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMcGoo Posted January 29, 2005 Share Posted January 29, 2005 The more power the better comment by the Klipsch engineer is interesting. I also agree as long as the power is clean. I was worried about the noise from the first watt out of a very power stereo amp that I wanted to use. It turns out that the amp is a well executed design, so there is no noise. The subtle detail on loud passages is not lost with this amp on RF-7s. The benefit of the big amp is that the amp uses more output devices, so that the amp is always in the linear range of the output sevices. There is virtually no chance of clipping the amp at any listenable level. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tkot Posted January 29, 2005 Author Share Posted January 29, 2005 ---------------- On 1/29/2005 7:03:07 PM artto wrote: ---------------- On 1/29/2005 6:20:01 PM analogman wrote: I am diappointed that my "take" on life offends. It was intended, A JOKE. Sorry it was lost on you. With regards, Analogman ---------------- Ah, the old "joke" alibi to try and get out of it (AGAIN). No sir, the "joke" is on you. Your name says it all, and your posts consistently support it. The bias is quite apparent. Humor. It is a difficult concept, no? With no regards, artto ---------------- now you went and did it, a-man artto SIGNED his reply (hope you dont need any advise on room accoustics) jay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
analogman Posted January 29, 2005 Share Posted January 29, 2005 ---------------- On 1/29/2005 7:03:07 PM artto wrote: ---------------- On 1/29/2005 6:20:01 PM analogman wrote: I am diappointed that my "take" on life offends. It was intended, A JOKE. Sorry it was lost on you. With regards, Analogman ---------------- Ah, the old "joke" alibi to try and get out of it (AGAIN). No sir, the "joke" is on you. Your name says it all, and your posts consistently support it. The bias is quite apparent. Humor. It is a difficult concept, no? With no regards, artto ---------------- You lecture me as if I were a child I make my position clear You feel silly 'cause you don't get it(or don't LIKE it) You come back with THIS You've got to be kidding, right?! God I hope so. Or, is that just the best rationalization you can come up with to defend your own intolerance, you pompous windbag Others may crave your approval and seek your validation, but not I Honest, innocent people don't NEED alibis ( a better choice of words in this instance would have been "to justify")their positions Humour, "a difficult concept"? well it would seem so Maybe I should include a header at the top of all my posts, something to the effect: Caution! Analogman Posting! May Contain Sardonic and Irreverent Wit! May Be Harmful or Fatal to Sacred Cows! Then, instead of being tied down and forced to read my posts, with which you say you are familiar, you could just "change the channel"! With regards, Analogman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted January 29, 2005 Share Posted January 29, 2005 ---------------- On 1/29/2005 6:40:47 PM edwinr wrote: The best dynamic range I've measured in my room with Klipschorns driven by a high quality 50 watt per channel solid state amplifier is around 20 db. Average listening levels measuring about 85 to 87 db then peaking at 105 to 107 db. ---------------- The way I estimate dynamic range of a recording is by taking a SPL rating at my listening chair, which is roughly 5 meters from my Khorns, of the quietest music I can hear during the softest passages, and subtract that from the highest peaks. The lowest the Radio Shack meter will measure is 50dB. But if I set peaks to hit at 105-110dB, the quietest music I've yet measured isn't going to be below, say, 60dB. What you're doing, Edwin, is using the average level as your baseline instead of the quietest music you can hear on the recording. It could be the same, or it could be vastly different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minn_male42 Posted January 29, 2005 Share Posted January 29, 2005 ---------------- On 1/29/2005 7:45:22 PM analogman wrote: You lecture me as if I were a child..... ---------------- only because you continually post as a child would post.... you mention your children, yet you post as if you were 14 years old (or younger) your "childish" attempts at what you call humor are pathetic at best and really detract from the discussions at hand..... your attempts at "humor" would be better presented in a different venue since no one is laughing here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tkot Posted January 29, 2005 Author Share Posted January 29, 2005 so lets review.... more power is good... better recordings are good... humor, is good, as long as people understand that it is humor... room noise is bad.... equipment noise is worse!!... most off the shelf recordings have little DR... and i still want to know what the DR is of a vinal recording?? in closeing... thanks to all who responded to my thread!! i dont feel like a virgin anymore!!! this was my first thread that actually had some good discussion!! jay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
analogman Posted January 29, 2005 Share Posted January 29, 2005 "tkot" wrote: now you went and did it, a-man artto SIGNED his reply (hope you dont need any advise on room accoustics) jay Thank you for your concern, very thoughtful of you, but it's OK, I know how to read and use the public library. Old Colony has an excellent selection of titles on the subject as well. I'm not sure if they carry artto's books though. Ah well... As always, Analogman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
analogman Posted January 29, 2005 Share Posted January 29, 2005 ---------------- On 1/29/2005 8:05:30 PM minn_male42 wrote: ---------------- On 1/29/2005 7:45:22 PM analogman wrote: You lecture me as if I were a child..... ---------------- only because you continually post as a child would post.... you mention your children, yet you post as if you were 14 years old (or younger) your "childish" attempts at what you call humor are pathetic at best and really detract from the discussions at hand..... your attempts at "humor" would be better presented in a different venue since no one is laughing here ---------------- Now now now, we're whimpering again. Your pal, Analogman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tkot Posted January 29, 2005 Author Share Posted January 29, 2005 ---------------- On 1/29/2005 8:16:10 PM analogman wrote: "tkot" wrote: now you went and did it, a-man artto SIGNED his reply (hope you dont need any advise on room accoustics) jay Thank you for your concern, very thoughtful of you, but it's OK, I know how to read and use the public library. Old Colony has an excellent selection of titles on the subject as well. I'm not sure if they carry artto's books though. Ah well... As always, Analogman ---------------- dude you missed the point... you make the comment that "humor is difficult" and dont understand or abide by it?? remember its MY thread!!! and i dont see picture books helping with room acoustics!!! jay p.s im going to dinner so im not disinterested, just hungry!! see ya later jay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minn_male42 Posted January 29, 2005 Share Posted January 29, 2005 ---------------- On 1/29/2005 8:27:21 PM tkot wrote: ---------------- On 1/29/2005 8:16:10 PM analogman wrote: "tkot" wrote: now you went and did it, a-man artto SIGNED his reply (hope you dont need any advise on room accoustics) jay Thank you for your concern, very thoughtful of you, but it's OK, I know how to read and use the public library. Old Colony has an excellent selection of titles on the subject as well. I'm not sure if they carry artto's books though. Ah well... As always, Analogman ---------------- dude you missed the point... you make the comment that "humor is difficult" and dont understand or abide by it?? remember its MY thread!!! and i dont see picture books helping with room acoustics!!! jay p.s im going to dinner so im not disinterested, just hungry!! see ya later jay ---------------- jay, he ALWAYS misses the point! total loser.... or just no clue! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted January 29, 2005 Share Posted January 29, 2005 ---------------- On 1/29/2005 8:15:21 PM tkot wrote: humor, is good, as long as people understand that it is humor... room noise is bad.... and i still want to know what the DR is of a vinal recording?? ---------------- I will expand on these three points. The essential element to humor, IMHO, is that it be funny. But it doesn't have to be funny to everyone. I knew a guy whose stated goal in writing humor was to come up with a joke so clever that only one person would get it. Excessive room noise is bad, but general ambient noise is fine and keeps us sane. Otherwise you'd start hearing the clock on the wall ticking and the blood running through your ears. There is no standard dynamic range of vinyl. It could theoretically approach that of CDs, but in actuality 60dB for a 45rpm 12-incher is more realistic as *possible*. But it wouldn't be practical for the reasons you and I have already outlined. That's just too much dynamic range for most any real living room situation. As has been pointed out before, typically a well-mastered older record will have far more dynamic range than a modern CD, because the modern CD will probably have been maximized. So the theoretical DR isn't as important as what is actually practiced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
analogman Posted January 29, 2005 Share Posted January 29, 2005 ---------------- On 1/29/2005 8:15:21 PM tkot wrote: so lets review.... more power is good... better recordings are good... humor, is good, as long as people understand that it is humor... room noise is bad.... equipment noise is worse!!... most off the shelf recordings have little DR... and i still want to know what the DR is of a vinal recording?? in closeing... thanks to all who responded to my thread!! i dont feel like a virgin anymore!!! this was my first thread that actually had some good discussion!! jay ---------------- This may be of some use, I take the liberty of posting it here for you, in my typical narrow minded fashion. It's from a thread I started entitled "Read This" http://www.audioholics.com/techtips/specsformats/LPsvsCDsDynamics.php Analogman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minn_male42 Posted January 29, 2005 Share Posted January 29, 2005 ---------------- On 1/29/2005 8:32:36 PM Parrot wrote: As has been pointed out before, typically a well-mastered older record will have far more dynamic range than a modern CD, because the modern CD will probably have been maximized. So the theoretical DR isn't as important as what is actually practiced. ---------------- newer "audiophile" recordings will have more dynamic range... as referenced earlier - almost anything from the telarc SACD catalog (classical) will have more dynamic range than almost any LP ever produced.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted January 29, 2005 Share Posted January 29, 2005 That is quite true, Russ, classical CDs and Telarcs for sure are not maximized like commercial pop. Thanks for the link, Analogman. If we go by Christine's terminology, what I have been referring to as the dynamic range would be called "relative dynamics." I would prefer calling it "relative dynamic range." I don't find it particularly useful for my purposes to be talking about the noise floor as the baseline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
analogman Posted January 29, 2005 Share Posted January 29, 2005 ---------------- On 1/29/2005 8:44:41 PM Parrot wrote: That is quite true, Russ, classical CDs and Telarcs for sure are not maximized like commercial pop. Thanks for the link, Analogman. If we go by Christine's terminology, what I have been referring to as the dynamic range would be called "relative dynamics." I would prefer calling it "relative dynamic range." I don't find it particularly useful for my purposes to be talking about the noise floor as the baseline. ---------------- What could I possibly know, why I'm just "a total loser without a clue", "and I'm not what I appear to be". No wonder life's so hard! Thanks for lowering my "expectations floor" to a realistic level! Cheerfully yours, Analogman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minn_male42 Posted January 29, 2005 Share Posted January 29, 2005 ---------------- On 1/29/2005 8:58:00 PM analogman wrote: What could I possibly know, why I'm just "a total loser without a clue", "and I'm not what I appear to be". No wonder life's so hard! Thanks for lowering my "expectations floor" to a realistic level! Cheerfully yours, Analogman ---------------- online - in any forum, you are what you post you post garbage - you are considered garbage.... you post useful and intelligent comments, you are considered intelligent... hopefully - for all our sakes - you will soon realize this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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