fletcherkane Posted February 8, 2005 Author Share Posted February 8, 2005 Thanks Don. After 40 posts to the thread, I was afraid I was the only one to feel this way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted February 8, 2005 Share Posted February 8, 2005 Ignorance is bliss, Sometimes I wish I could go back Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted February 8, 2005 Share Posted February 8, 2005 Fletcher dude did you try the analoge outputs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fletcherkane Posted February 8, 2005 Author Share Posted February 8, 2005 Yeah, I am working on it. I only have three Cd players in the house right now, and my main system is kinda of a pain to pull out and hook up other stuff. I do have an old Fisher 2 channel receiver that I am going to hook up several players to see if you guys are right. I'll use a pair of my KG 2.2's as test speaks. Here's what I'll be comparing. Granted, there is no true "hi-fi" gear here, but I should be able to here some difference between them right? 1. 20 year old Magnavox with 4 bit DAC 2. 10 year old Pioneer 25 disc changer 3. New Sony 300 disc changer 4. Marantz Pro-grade, rack mount, CD/Tape Combo Unit I really hope you guys are wrong, cause I really don't need another excuse to spend more money on audio gear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyclonecj Posted February 8, 2005 Share Posted February 8, 2005 Don't forget to try any DVD players you have also.... some might surprise you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyclonecj Posted February 16, 2005 Share Posted February 16, 2005 Bump..... Fletcher... Any results? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpm Posted February 16, 2005 Share Posted February 16, 2005 CD player update: A couple weeks ago I purchased a Cambridge Audio 640CDP which immediately sounded clearer than my old Denon CDP. But after a couple days it was clear that the highs in my RF7s were too harsh to listen to. I took back the Cambridge and bought a Rega Planet, which I was told to do in the first place, but was trying not to spend so much money. The combination of the Rega Planet, Rega Curser pre amp, Rega Maia amp and the RF7s is perfect for my ears. If I were to try to do better than this combo, I'd have to really spend some serious time, effort and dollars. I'm just not that interested. I love my stereo now. So to summarize, not all CD players sound the same. Anyone that says they do must be tone deaf. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audio Flynn Posted February 16, 2005 Share Posted February 16, 2005 Having all Rega must be nice. if I winn the lotto I would like to get all Naim; it just seems like cool elitist stuff, but really performs well with each other. Too bad Ampex or Scott do not make tubed CD players...the "synergy" could be awesome! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minn_male42 Posted February 16, 2005 Share Posted February 16, 2005 ---------------- On 2/16/2005 11:55:36 AM jpm wrote: CD player update: A couple weeks ago I purchased a Cambridge Audio 640CDP which immediately sounded clearer than my old Denon CDP. But after a couple days it was clear that the highs in my RF7s were too harsh to listen to. I took back the Cambridge and bought a Rega Planet, which I was told to do in the first place, but was trying not to spend so much money. The combination of the Rega Planet, Rega Curser pre amp, Rega Maia amp and the RF7s is perfect for my ears. If I were to try to do better than this combo, I'd have to really spend some serious time, effort and dollars. I'm just not that interested. I love my stereo now. So to summarize, not all CD players sound the same. Anyone that says they do must be tone deaf. ---------------- congrats on getting the "right" parts together for the sound that you want out of your system.... system synergy is very important.... even though i agree with your assessment that CD players do sound different - i am not going to call anyone "tone deaf"..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audio Flynn Posted February 16, 2005 Share Posted February 16, 2005 Tone Deaf was a bit much. That phrase is a bit too derogatory; unless we are describing Craig's singing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fletcherkane Posted February 16, 2005 Author Share Posted February 16, 2005 ---------------- On 2/16/2005 11:55:36 AM jpm wrote: So to summarize, not all CD players sound the same. Anyone that says they do must be tone deaf. ---------------- Who ya callin' tone deaf? I am a musician by trade. Not to brag, but I have pretty close to perfect pitch. Just callin it the way I saw it. Notice I said saw. I did the test that I said I would last week. Check my last post to see what I was going to test. The test disc was Phil Keaggy's 220 album. Using all analog outputs on my various machines, I have to admit that there was some difference. Not much though. If I wasn't listening for it, I would not have noticed. Being in church ministry, I will never make the money to afford some of the true hi-fi gear you guys tout, so I may never hear the difference in a CD Player that costs a grand or more over the extremely great functionality of my current 300 disc Sony. Anyway guys, this thread was fun, I knew when I posted that it would raise some ires. But isn't that why we are here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpm Posted February 16, 2005 Share Posted February 16, 2005 Just funnin' with the "tone deaf" comment. Wasn't the title of this thread "Feather Ruffling Time"? Peace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott0527 Posted February 16, 2005 Share Posted February 16, 2005 If you really want to hear a difference you need to try those little green pens. You must paint the edges of all your cdees with the green pen. Yes, the green pen. The blue one is ok but the green pen makes them sound perfect. Don't even try the red or purple ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minn_male42 Posted February 16, 2005 Share Posted February 16, 2005 ---------------- On 2/16/2005 4:03:25 PM scott0527 wrote: If you really want to hear a difference you need to try those little green pens. You must paint the edges of all your cdees with the green pen. Yes, the green pen. The blue one is ok but the green pen makes them sound perfect. Don't even try the red or purple ones. ---------------- the red markers are for "hot jazz"..... and of course the purple one are for the music of prince.... or for awhile known as "the artist formerly known as prince" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olorin Posted February 16, 2005 Share Posted February 16, 2005 He was formerly known as the artist formerly known as Prince. Now he's Prince again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fletcherkane Posted February 16, 2005 Author Share Posted February 16, 2005 I figured you were funnin' "Can you feel the love tonight...." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fletcherkane Posted February 16, 2005 Author Share Posted February 16, 2005 What pens? Or is this just another joke to try to get me to ruin all my CD's? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minn_male42 Posted February 16, 2005 Share Posted February 16, 2005 ---------------- On 2/16/2005 7:52:13 PM fletcherkane wrote: What pens? Or is this just another joke to try to get me to ruin all my CD's? ---------------- in case you haven't heard about this "tweak" http://www.snopes.com/music/media/marker.htm Claim: Coating the edges of a compact disc with a green marking pen will noticeably improve its sound quality. Status: False. Origins: Despite numerous claims about the efficacy of "greening" CDs, there is no valid scientific reason to explain why marking CDs with green pens would improve sound quality, nor has anyone ever been able to consistently distinguish between marked and unmarked discs in a double blind comparison. The most commonly offered explanation for the allegedly improved results produced by a "greened" CD is that the light from a CD player's laser reflects off the shiny inner rim and outer edge of the CD and enters the "eye" of the player, thereby altering the digital bit count and distorting the sound. Coating the edges of the CD with a colored marker supposedly reduces or eliminates the amount of stray light reflecting of the disc's edges, producing "better" or "cleaner" sound. (Green markers are used because the faithful believe that color most effectively "absorbs" the light from the laser's infrared beam.) As former Stereo Review and High Fidelity editor David Ranada pointed out, however, light travels so quickly that it would be reflected back to the laser from the edge of the disc while the laser was still reading the same digital bit and therefore could not produce a distorted reading. Ranada confirmed his assertion by connecting a digital error counter to a CD player to compare data errors produced during playback of both colored and uncolored discs. He found no difference between the two types of discs at any portion of their surfaces -- inner rim, outer rim, or middle. He also tried coloring only half the circumference of a disc and using an oscilloscope to analyze the signal picked up by the laser. The scope showed no difference between the patterns produced by the colored and uncolored halves of the disc. The claim that coloring CDs could improve their sound originated in late 1989, was spread at the winter Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas in early 1990, and achieved national prominence when it was printed (and given credence) in the March 1990 issue of ICE (the International CD Exchange newsletter). The initial claims suggested that the inner rim and outer edge of the disc should be colored with an Eberhard Faber Design Art Marker No. 255, but over time this procedure became less specific. (Many later reports mentioned coloring only the outer rim, and the pen used was either generic green or a competely different color altogether, such as purple. Coating discs with Armor All or Rain-X were other popular variations.) That this story was so enthusiastically embraced and believed is likely due to a number of factors, such as: The pyschological power of persuasion: People believe coloring CDs improves sound quality merely because they've heard the claim repeated so often and so authoritatively. The details of compact disc technology are still largely a mystery to most of the general public, and so they readily accept the seemingly plausible explanation offered to explain the phenomenon, even though it has no demonstrable scientific basis. Since sound quality is largely subjective and unquantifiable, the "greening" claim is difficult to disprove. Not surprisingly, the results of comparison tests follow the pattern one would expect to see: people claim to hear a difference (often an astounding one) between marked and unmarked discs when they know which is which, but they cannot reliably distinguish between the two types of discs in double blind studies. The desire for control over technology: People want to maintain some level of control by believing that no technology is so complex or perfect that it can't be improved by a little good old know-how. As Sam Tellig, a writer for Stereophile magazine put it, "I get a great deal of satisfaction in showing that these tweaks take the 'perfect-sound-forever medium' and make it a little more perfect." The "something for nothing" syndrome: People are always readily willing to accept something that promises great returns for little or no investment. This concept is best summed up by early "greening" enthusiast Pete Howard (publisher of ICE and Rolling Stone CD columnist), who opined: "Even if there's a little bit of difference, it's amazing that you can improve billion-dollar technology with a two-buck marker." Snobbery: Digital audio technology has been denigrated since its introduction by a small but fervent group of audiophiles who insist that the sound it produces is "harsh," unlifelike, and generally inferior to that of analog recordings. The revelation that CD sound is imperfect was undoubtedly an appealing story for some of them to spread. Greed: There was money to be made selling objects of dubious worth (such as damping rings and CD markers) to a gullible public, and hence a financial interest for some people to promulgate stories touting their alleged effectiveness. Additional information: The following is an article about the CD greening phenomenon that originally appeared in inMusic magazine. Teetering on the Edge (inMusic) Last updated: 1 December 1996 The URL for this page is http://www.snopes.com/music/media/marker.htm Urban Legends Reference Pages © 1995-2003 by Barbara and David P. Mikkelson This material may not be reproduced without permission Sources: Considine, J.D. "The Greening of America, CD Style, Attracts Attention." St. Louis Post-Dispatch. 19 April 1990 (p. E4). Fantel, Hans. "Brush Aside the Idea of Painting CD's." The New York Times. 3 June 1990 (p. B26). Goldstein, Patrick. "The Half-Amazing, Half-Crazy Greening of CD Sound." Los Angeles Times. 4 March 1990 (Calendar, p.73). Hamlin, Jessie. "'Greening' CDs: Is It Merely a Red Herring?" San Francisco Chronicle. 27 April 1990 (Calendar; p.13). Ranada, David. "Teetering on the Edge." inMusic. 15 May 1990. Schwartz, Bruce. "Felt-Tip Markers Stir a Hue and Cry Over CD Clarity." USA Today. 10 May 1990 (p. D4). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott0527 Posted February 16, 2005 Share Posted February 16, 2005 ---------------- On 2/16/2005 7:52:13 PM fletcherkane wrote: What pens? Or is this just another joke to try to get me to ruin all my CD's? ---------------- You mean you aren't using "The Auric Audio Illuminator pens"? Oh my gosh, you're letting those laser beams spread out all over you chassis distorting everything. Please, at least tell me you're using the Shakti Stone. Ok, ok, sorry, I'm joking. Maybe those things really work, I shouldn't make fun of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fletcherkane Posted February 17, 2005 Author Share Posted February 17, 2005 Thanks Russ for the great reply! In all my years in the music biz, I have honestly never heard of CD greening. Your post was a fascinating read. Who says you can't learn something hanging out with 2 channel audio nuts? Hmm, I wonder if the green sharpie sitting on my desk would make a difference... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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