Erik Mandaville Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 I've been listening to the Moth/Denon combination with a pair of Sennheiser HD650 phones in the evenings, and these things are like an efficient Klipsch Heritage system for personal listening. It's really nice, and the Moth sounds very good with them. I guess I mentioned that while the Moth sounded great with the K-horns by itself (it's an integrated amp), its gain characteristics surprisingly did not match nearly as well with the Lexicon as did my modded Horus amps and Moondog center channel. I have some ideas I want to try for a new SRPP 6SL7 input/driver topology, which I think might be interesting with the Moth, but am not going to mess with that until Spring Break and after a couple of other repairs and projects I'm doing for friends are behind me. I was just curious if some of you who like Klipsch loudspeakers might also enjoy using headphones from time to time. Like the Lexicon and dedicated surround channels, good headphones can provide a very similar listening experience. I used to listen to phones all the time in high school and college, and had forgotten how enjoyable and good-sounding it can be. Erik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 I currently have an ancient set of Stax electrocet phones, which sound like electrostatic loudspeakers, except they are easily driven by my flea-powered tube Bottlehead 2A3 Paramour monoblocks amplifiers. While the 70s style vintage Class A Pioneer M-22, at a hefty 60 pounds, should sound great with headphones, they have too much distortion at the miniscule watts that electrocet phones require. Instead, the Paramours sound better so instead of usng them for that, I just dont use them at all. I have yet to try the sweet, little 70s vintage, solid-state harmon/kardon receivers (less than $100). Either one is a revelation with big ole horns, more tube-like than modern, chintzy pieces of solid-state tin I have heard (actually, only a few) on big ole horns.* with my cans either, guess I still did to do more experimenting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauln Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 I have been listening to my Wright SETs with my 30 year old Sennheiser HD424 until the new La Scalas are built - 12 more weeks. The stereo separation is too much for me with the monoblocks - I used to like the phones with my old receiver, so in desperation I went to RS and got a $99 pair of Sony speakers 3-way with bright yellow 8in woofers. They sound soft, thin, fuzzy, dim, and somewhat bass heavy; they actually sound better than I thought they would. I'm used to old Heresy. Looking forward to the La Scalas. 12 more weeks... Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnysal Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 I listen to grado sr80 headphones driven by a creek OB-11 headphone amp, I love the sound! } the tube versus solid state issue IMHO is the same as it is for speakers. my grados tend to sound "full" and "warm" so SS amplication gives me just the sound I like, I suspect a tube amp combined with my current headphones might be too "bloated" you know? I had a pair of sennheiser HD-515 headphones and did not like the sound at all. headphones and amps should be selected together as a SYSTEM and chosen based on ones individual taste, not on specs, just as we choose our speakers/amps combos. warm regards, tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Mandaville Posted February 22, 2005 Author Share Posted February 22, 2005 This is interesting. I'm using KR Enterprise 2A3s in the Moth, which have been described by some as 'transistors in bottles.' That's fine, since we may look and listen for different things in music. They seem very well balanced to me, with maybe just a bit more emphasis in the higher frequency range. There is still plenty of midrange, though, and I enjoy the combination very much. As when I'm in my car, I tend to listen more to music and think less about the equipment making it. It's just been a nice way to listen to music, and the Sennheiser's are the best (and second pair) of headphones I have owned. My wife and I can occupy the same space on weekday evenings after work and school, but enjoy different distractions from the day. Erik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfogg Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 Headphones can be a lot of fun too. Esp. with binaural recordings if you happen to have any. I have a set of Grado SR-60s, a pair of Koss electrostatic ESP-950 and a set of Entymotic ER-4S earspeakers. For the Grado or Entymotics I drive them with a McCormack Micro Integrated Drive (which also doubles as a good pre-amp and can drive the Las too). Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnysal Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 I am the first to admit I am probably at the bottom of the range when it comes to headphones and amp so my comments have to be considered in context. But I wanted to mention that the synergy between amp and headphone and the decision about tube versus SS is remarkably like that we make when talking about speakers and amps...as usual auditioning is the best method and individual tastes rule the determination. One thing I can say for sure headphones can give a tremendously enjoyable listening experience and one that does not annoy the rest of the family! regards, tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Mandaville Posted February 22, 2005 Author Share Posted February 22, 2005 My gosh, Shawn! No wonder you like surround sound so much -- you have six ears! Hey, there's an idea! I wonder if I could run another pair of ears in parallel with what I already have. Problem is, there's bound to be some sort of impedance mismatch because of the parallel connection. Yah, headphones are phun! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfogg Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 "No wonder you like surround sound so much -- you have six ears!" LOL, its a lot easier to have a few pairs of headphones then it is speakers. (Though I have far too many of them too... I really need to clear some out) Each set of phones has a somewhat different purpose. The Grado's are the inexpensive set so I don't worry about hurting them as much. The Koss phones are expensive and sort of a pain to travel with. I usually have them set up at my office. The Entymotics are great for traveling with and they are also very revealing.. more so then any other transducer I've ever listened to. Because they seal in the ears they provide 20+ dB of isolation which helps with how revealing they are. For long term wearing though (more then a couple of hours) they can get uncomfortable. "I wonder if I could run another pair of ears in parallel with what I already have. Problem is, there's bound to be some sort of impedance mismatch because of the parallel connection." Only if you brain has a highish output impedance. If it acts as a great voltage source you shouldn't have a problem. Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnysal Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 I forgot to mention my Sharp MD33 and Sony EX71 earphones...I use them when traveling...tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Mandaville Posted February 23, 2005 Author Share Posted February 23, 2005 Tony: I wanted to ask you about Jeff's PP2A3 amp. I remember that poor thing became quite the traveler awhile back, which had nothing to do with how good of an amp it is. I know you said you have enjoyed it very much, too. I'm pondering the possibility of building his Seth amp, and was just curious if he did your PP2A3 on a single chassis for a stereo amplifier or as a pair of monoblocks. I can't remember. I have a number of schematics for 45s, 2A3s, and 300Bs, and Jeff's design looks very good. It could be built quite satisfactorily, I think, without killing the bank. I'm sure I can ask him the same question, but do you happen to know what power and OPTs he used on your amplifier? In advance, thanks, Erik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Painful Reality Posted February 23, 2005 Share Posted February 23, 2005 ---------------- On 2/23/2005 5:48:03 AM Erik Mandaville wrote: Tony: I wanted to ask you about Jeff's PP2A3 amp. I remember that poor thing became quite the traveler awhile back, which had nothing to do with how good of an amp it is. I know you said you have enjoyed it very much, too. I'm pondering the possibility of building his Seth amp, and was just curious if he did your PP2A3 on a single chassis for a stereo amplifier or as a pair of monoblocks. I can't remember. I have a number of schematics for 45s, 2A3s, and 300Bs, and Jeff's design looks very good. It could be built quite satisfactorily, I think, without killing the bank. I'm sure I can ask him the same question, but do you happen to know what power and OPTs he used on your amplifier? In advance, thanks, Erik ---------------- It was done as a stereo amp with a Hammond 300BX power transformer, two Hammond 2.5V 6A filament tranformers, dual choke in the PSU, Luhndall 1660/10mA interstage phase splitter and MQ OPT from their Brooklyn serie. I don't recall excatly what model B-20 I think but I'm not sure. It was not the same circuit as the Seth though. The Seth uses an inductor (choke...whatever) with a center tap to split the phase. It splits the phase rather perfectly until 60 kHz. Tony's amp use a more conventional SE to PP phase splitting interstage. The EXO-173 would be the "heart" of the Seth so it's rather difficult to use anything else. To build the Seth on a budget, one can consider using Hammond OPTs of 5K P-P of primary impedance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfogg Posted February 23, 2005 Share Posted February 23, 2005 Erik, " I'm pondering the possibility of building his Seth amp, and was just curious if he did your PP2A3 on a single chassis for a stereo amplifier or as a pair of monoblocks." I have been sort of kicking around that idea too. Two things (besides no budget right now) are holding me back. I hate metalwork and I think I'd rather a PP 300B just for the added headroom. Of coure retubing 3 PP 300B amps wouldn't be a fun thing.... Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dodger Posted February 23, 2005 Share Posted February 23, 2005 Although disdained by some, I use my Koss Pro 4 AAs every night. They've been in use for 29 years with only a cord and earsurround change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tpg Posted February 23, 2005 Share Posted February 23, 2005 I used to listen to my Sennheiser HD580's all the time... Recently, though, I sold off all of my headphone amps (except for a basic one I never finished) so I don't do any listening through them anymore. I built all of my own headphone amps. I had several opamp-based amps and a couple versions with low-voltage tubes in use. I liked their sound, but there was a little more distortion than I would have liked. I rarely listen to music anymore, actually... none of my speakers get much use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnysal Posted February 23, 2005 Share Posted February 23, 2005 Jeff answered your questions well methinks. one chassis, fabulous sound. I do not know if the Seth will sound much better than my amp (I like to think not) but if it sounds anything like mine it will floor you! it would cost $5-15k if it were a name brand. I would imagine if you build the seth with magnaquest iron and some decent caps and you will hear a special thing indeed! regards, tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Mandaville Posted February 23, 2005 Author Share Posted February 23, 2005 Thanks, Jeff, Tony. Shawn: I agree metal work is/can be hard work. I would use something less hefty this time around, likely a lighter weight aluminum in the form of a Hammond or Bud box. I don't know, though, once I get started, a certain motivation seems to kick in, but it's always nevertheless a job to drill and punch, and file, and drill and punch and file and some more. I've got a couple of PP 300B schematics I could send to you. I enjoy monoblocks, but I think stereo amps have very definite advantages, too. I know that a stereo amp can be made well and sound good. I've wanted to build an amp such as this for awhile, using all used parts in good condition. There's something I enjoy, such as what I did with the current crossovers I'm using, about using good quality 'scrounged parts.' It's kind of what I grew up with, and I think about those years more often than I used to. Erik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy Dee Posted February 24, 2005 Share Posted February 24, 2005 Erik, That sounds like an exciting project. When you get it done... OK if I come over to Houston for a listen? I'll bring ribs and a bottle of wine, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Mandaville Posted February 24, 2005 Author Share Posted February 24, 2005 Dee: That sounds like fun! I've been tossing around the idea of building an amp using salvaged chassis parts from a scrap steel/junk yard -- old industrial metal boxes of sorts, with natural oxidation, old paint, and other signs of lots of use in a previous life. This would be cleaned of loose material, then sealed with a clear coat. In contrast ('juxtaposition' is the fancy art-related term!)to this, would be the carefully painted satin or gloss black power and OPTs, clean white ceramic tube sockets, gold-plated jacks, etc. This would definitely not be everyone's cup of whatever everyone prefers to drink (which we have well established is not going to be the same for every...one!), but I think it would be pretty cool from an artistic standpoint. It would really have to be the right thing object though, but would be fun to find. I have spent hours scrounging steel yards for sculpture material, and it's always fun to see what's possible to find and buy for literally pennies. It's how I built my speaker stands, which I took back to the school studio and weld together. Most importantly, the circuit would have to be worth going to all the troube for, but I honestly have always felt comfortable with Jeff's design work. His amp, at least the Horus, was voiced very much to the kind of sound I like -- quick transient response, good detail, sharp percussive attacks, etc., and I have a feeling the Seth may be not unlike that. I could be wrong, but won't know for sure until I try it. The most sure way of getting me to try something would be to tell me it's a waste of my time to do it! Erik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfogg Posted February 24, 2005 Share Posted February 24, 2005 Erik, Yeah, I'd have to get a set of punches and such. I suppose with a good set of them the metalwork wouldn't be nearly as difficult. The right tools always make jobs easier. If you have the PP 300B circuits handy I would be interested in taking a look at them. One thing I sort of have in the back of my mind is trying to design a SE (parallel) or PP design using the 6C19PI triodes since I have a bunch of them. I'd need to learn more before tackling that though. Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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