Re: Klipsch Model "H" Loudspeakers

[new2klipsch]

Hello, It's been awhile since I've visited. Recently purchased a pair of Model H speakers. They are somewhat similar to Heresy but the cabinet appears to be shallower. My problem is the woofer in one of the speakers. At low volume levels the woofer buzzes and sounds very fuzzy especially with bass heavy music. It sounds somewhat better when the volume is cranked up a bit, but never sounds crisp and tight. The shipping/packing job was outstanding and I found no loose items in the cabinet. The other piece of info I have is that the woofer was reconed at some point in its previous history. The seller mentioned use of EV part(s) for repairs. Any information on the Model H is also appreciated. Thanks in advance. Jim

[fec]

sounds like you bought that nice looking pair that were on e-bay last week. are they as pretty as they looked?

[new2klipsch]

Hi fec, Yeh, them's the ones. They aren't too pretty as-is. The staining is worse in real life. They are solid, though, and with some elbow grease I think they have a lot of potential. I'm hoping the repair or fix for the woofer won't cost an arm and two legs. Maybe will have to look for a replacement Heresy woofer. Take care, jim

[Marty65]

Jim, I have a pair of Model H heresy's like you bought. Mine were bought brand new in 1964. The woofer in those speakers is somewhat limited in its bass response. To me the midrange and tweeter are just beautiful in these speakers. I almost positive that Klipsch used an Electro voice woofer in these speakers. Does yours have a wizzer cone with a piece of screen in the middle. Any questions I can help you with, just let me know. Dan

[Guest JimG]

The model H was the early version of the Heresy. It was available as the Model H 12 or the H 8 - each denoting the size of the woofer. About three years into production, the Model H became known as the Heresy and the H 8 disappeared. There's probably not much we can offer you on a speaker that old, but call Trey at tech support anyways. He may be able to help.

Jim

[new2klipsch]

Hi Dan and Jim,

Thanks for the information. I found a link on the web and it appears the woofer is an EV SP-12. In response to your question Marty, yes it has a whizzer cone with a screen in the middle. I thought the speakers may be approaching 40 years old and it sounds like that is the case. Is it possible the fuzziness and distortion is from rubbing? If so, is it fairly easy to disassemble the woofer to inspect and clean internals? All input appreciated. Enjoy the Music....jim

[JohnA]

The distortion could very well be from the voice coil rubbing. However, it would be almost impossible to remove the cone without destroying it in the process. If the voice coil is rubbing, causing your distrotion, it is rubbing because it has delaminated or something else has failed. Try to find somebody to recone your woofer. Since it is an SP-12, you should be able to find someone who can, or maybe another one in good shape. I've done a Yahoo search for speaker repair and found several. There's one in Knoxville, TN and a big one in CA.

John

[Klipschguy]

Jim,

The woofer may not need a recone. It may just have stuff in the gap, or the cone/magnet may be out of of alignment - both problems can often be corrected by any reputable speaker repair shop.

KG

[Malcolm]

Woofer is an SP12B, not an SP12. There is a big difference. SP12 has a 3 pound magnet. SP12B has a 1 pound magnet.

Another possible solution to your woofer problem is to use a later model K-22 (e.g. K-22-EF or K-22-K) or K-24. It would take a crossover network change. But if yours has a T2A autotransformer and a 1.5 mH choke like the later models, all that would be necessary to bring it up to Type E or E2 is replacing/adding capacitors and changing the taps the speakers are connected to. Capacitors are frequently replaced when tweaking these speakers anyway.

[new2klipsch]

Malcolm,

Thanks for the info. The woofer has been shipped out-of-state to a shop I've done business with before. They did a beautiful job reconing a JBL 2220A. Looked new when done and sounded great too. Waiting to hear back so I can decide what to do next. Regarding replacement of the woofer with a later model, do you have the details regarding the mods for the crossover, or are the changes simply duplicating the later Heresy networks? In one of the other posts I made regarding the H's (different thread)it was mentioned the change in sound character may not retain the original voicing. Looking for any advice. Again, if the shop can fix the woofer that's the route I intend to go, but.......Thanks, Jim

[Malcolm]

Sounds like you know a good shop. So I expect you will be satisfied when you get the speaker back. You may hear a difference in the bass between the two speakers then, due to the difference in compliance of the surround and spider in the newly reconed speaker and the original one. You may want to pull the second woofer and have it reconed, too, so they match. At that point, the only changes I would suggest are to damp the horns with Dynamat or a generic equivalent, and replace the capacitors with the same values in your favorite modern audophile brand.

Its moot now, but the crossover network changes I mentioned would just bring the crossover up to the same type used with the later woofers. I don't think they would change the character of the sound at all, just make the speakers sound right with the updated woofer. Klipsch seems to have maintained a very consistent sound throughout most of the original Heresy line over nearly 20 years. My 1966 H700s and 1972 Heresys have Type C networks. My 1974 and 1978 Heresys have Type E networks. The only differences between the speakers is the woofer. All of them have K77 tweeters and K55V squawkers, and I believe they all crossover between the tweeter and squawker at about the same frequency. The network differences are only in the taps used on the T2A and one capacitor value. The reason for the network changes appears to be differences in woofer efficiency and response between earlier and later models with K22 variants: 1966 EV SP12B, 1972 CTS with large magnet structure, 1974 CTS with smaller magnet structure, later years various including Eminence. When towards the end of the original Heresy model run, Klipsch ran out of K55Vs and substituted K53Ks (Heppner), they added a 33 uF cap to the Type E and called it a Type E2. These are the only ones I can hear a difference in, and its very obviously due to the K53K.

Frankly, the only newer woofer that I might consider an improvement would be the K24, and only if I were not using a subwoofer. Some folks feel that you get a bit lower bass with it. But it won't be much. All variations in the K22 series of woofers appear to be to reduce cost or because a supplier became unviable. The SP12B was the best woofer ever put in the Heresy line. So, congratulations! Enjoy!